[Noisebridge-discuss] "Banning" discussion tonight
Charles Tang
cjtang1 at asu.edu
Wed Feb 26 00:39:03 UTC 2014
Jeffery,
I'm aware of the policy.
But, I think this was an issue of Lee having just a mere difference in opinion on the definition of feminism, or maybe just made it all up to get attention from tom for whatever reason.
I don't remember the discussion involving anything other than Lee being incredibly annoying to tom.
Not a really high threshold.
—
Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi Charles,
> You can read our anti-harassment policy, which includes our definition of harassment, here:
> https://github.com/noisebridge/anti-harassment
> Cheers!
> Jeffrey
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:33 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>> Retributive
>> Utilitarian
>> Restorative
>>
>> All I see here is semi-retributive desire, cow moos too much, cow should go to the ban-hammer factory.
>>
>> How are we defining harassment for those who just have a difference in opinion.
>>
>> Cow moos to much and it's harassment, cow should be silenced and go to the ban-hammer factory.
>>
>> No theory can explain cow. Cow is just different than the rest of the cows because cow moos too much.
>>
>> Cowrights are diminished, cow is not allow to the field with the rest of the cows. Send any other cow to the ban-hammer factory, as cows become less. Any moo is problematic. Consequently, all cows eventually go to the ban-hammer-factory.
>>
>> It's a slippery ice cream scoop and were all about to fall off the cone.
>>
>> I should hope that, I, another cow, doesn't anger vegans for my product. For then, I moo too much too. I may be the next cow on the list.
>>
>> I'd be really sad.
>> —
>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would like for Lee to be at the meeting as well.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Mitch, Lee Sonko knew about the banning proposal. I had personally been in
>> > discussion with him about it. I was surprised that he didn't show up to the
>> > meeting.
>> >
>> > And this is why Noisebridge isn't a safe space: after months of on-and-off
>> > harassment, Tom brings up this consensus proposal, it's on the docket for
>> > weeks, and actually manages to pass consensus. Yet after all these hurdles
>> > were overcome, Lee can defy his ban and come back into the space and debate
>> > his banning.
>> >
>> > Because Mitch says so. Even though he's a member and could have blocked for
>> > more discussion.
>> >
>> > We treat abusive people with kid gloves, and even when we manage to get
>> > something passed consensus and say, "Yes, this person should be banned",
>> > Mitch still wants to have a do-over.
>> >
>> > Mitch, do you respect consensus? Or only when it agrees with you?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Praveen Sinha <dmhomee at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I love you Naomi!!!! Community meeting is a GREAT idea :) I don't know
>> >> if I can be there tonight, but I'll try my best.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I will be there. I also feel this is an extremely important
>> >>> discussion, and goes much deeper than simply the use of a ban.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have a solution in mind to avoid these situations, something I
>> >>> brought up a few meetings ago: a "community" meeting.
>> >>>
>> >>> Misunderstandings shouldn't be allowed to scale to the level of
>> >>> "drama". In our current "system", we only have two modes: the general
>> >>> meeting and noisebridge-discuss. The former is simply an
>> >>> inappropriate venue for addressing interpersonal issues, and the
>> >>> latter... well.
>> >>>
>> >>> Now that I see to what ridiculous level the Noisebridge version of
>> >>> justice can be taken in response to interpersonal issues that should
>> >>> never have escalated, it's time we consider strongly the idea of
>> >>> having a Community meeting in addition to the NB general meeting.
>> >>>
>> >>> --Naomi
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Mitch Altman <maltman23 at hotmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > Unfortunately I won't be able to be at tonight's meeting. But I want
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > encourage discussion of "Banning".
>> >>> >
>> >>> > It is important to get rid of people who melt use, rather contribute to
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > culture of Noisebridge and is mission and vision. It is also important
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > ban people who are disruptive, make many people uncomfortable, or are
>> >>> > violent or hateful.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > It is also important to not use banning as a means of getting rid of
>> >>> > someone
>> >>> > because you don't like them, or because you have a misunderstanding or
>> >>> > argument.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Banning is a drastic measure, and (unless for violent or hateful or
>> >>> > illegal
>> >>> > behavior) should only be done when other means have been exhausted.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > These concepts need to be discussed and explored.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A specific case came to my attention recently. Lee Sony was apparently
>> >>> > banned without him being allowed to present his position. He will be
>> >>> > at
>> >>> > tonight's meeting. I hope people will listen and respond. I feel this
>> >>> > is
>> >>> > important.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Best,
>> >>> > Mitch.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Naomi Theora Most
>> >>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> >>> +1-415-728-7490
>> >>>
>> >>> skype: nthmost
>> >>>
>> >>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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