[Noisebridge-discuss] Fwd: Re: N0_Hat's reaction to User:Gergorydillon perception of events leading to Ban Request my User:Flamsmark
hush.hat at hushmail.com
hush.hat at hushmail.com
Thu Feb 27 14:48:13 UTC 2014
Sent using Hushmail
----- Forwarded message from hush.hat at hushmail.com -----
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:55:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] N0_Hat's reaction to
User:Gergorydillon perception of events leading to Ban Request my
User:Flamsmark
To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden"
I don't feel comfortable at all if indeed i was sleeping which is a
term that implies 7-10 hours of sleep consisting of 2 to 3 biorhythm
cycles
at most i nap for 3 hours which is 1 cycle and use the designated
space for sleep hacking set up by council member JC for that exact
purpose.
I have double and triple checked with Council members to find that
their is no policy against sleeping at Noisebridge. I at most have
done this every other day, and have woken up people snoring who are
disturbing people and waking up people who are regulars in the space
sleeping is places other than the hacker stacker and advising them to
use it and that i will be happy to wake them in 3 hours.
I have done sleep hacking since the age of 20 and personally i think
that a black and white system has created a divide in the community
that forces people to fight human nature and hide to sleep. It should
be taken into account that a two degree drop in temperate in a place
which is not heated like noisebridge with intensified cooling due to
stagnation of blood with excessive static posture causes a chemical to
be release in the brain that makes people fall asleep instantly.
The hybrid hacker stacker in the space is a good buffer for people who
are here hacking on stuff long hours. Also i have seen no 7-10 hour
sleepers take interest in it, the only people who have use it for a
maximum for three and then their timer goes off or the person they
asked to wake them from their nap does so. Once in a while people will
dose off in their chair with their laptop still on and then wake up
after 10 minuts, its just the reality of the space.
The people who use the hacker stacker self police each other since
their is only one. The scarcity is a dynamic which promotes
accountability and the ones who sleep outside the hacker stacker loose
face and are asked to stop because then the hacker stacker might be
banned thus giving incentive to stop resident sleepers.
In a black and while policy the only incentive is to lie or hide which
creates divide in the community and causes friction. It also eats up
precious time of council members like Al and Monad who come in the
morning and sacrifice their time to patrol the space.
The hybrid is more efficient and effective as a model to keep the
peace at Noisebridge without extremes happening like with what
happened to Robert where he chose to do something as extreme as
sleeping on top of the elevator because their were no options he could
find and he was motivated by fear of being banned.
I believe with a hybrid model we would not have to had the entire
drama and banning of Robert who was a valuable member of the community
and did much excellent things to help Noisebridge. I am not saying its
right or wrong but its a bridge toward a win win dynamic where people
take responsibility and accountability, and for those who don't, they
become surrounded by people who are being excellent and are.
Sleep hacking is 3 hours max under the scientific definition which is
one biorhythm sleep cycle and it is the field i have been in for a
long time and taught professionally at a time also.
Dosing off is usually a max of 24 min before deep sleep kicks in and
one enters deep theta.
Sleeping is 7-10 hours which is 3 biorhythm sleep cycles.
Resident sleepers and Sleepers don't use the hacker stacker because
they don't want to be woken up hence one is a hybrid solution and one
is the problem Noisebridge has been try to eliminate for a long time
as far as my understanding goes from the days of occupy. But i don't
go that far back i am pretty new here compared to many who use the
analysis and contrast of that past to design future projections of
Noisebridge. I believe the dynamics are different, and being someone
who has seen more than anyone of what goes on here because i only
sleep 3 hours as a normal mode of life consistently, i can tell you
that the people who use the hacker stacker are all as far as i have
seen people who are excellent in the space and of great value to the
space and the community.
I respect your view, and i know what i am proposing may sound
unreasonable but a black and while model is a win/lose model that that
model despite the approach has never worked and it never will because
it promoted the motivation of the individual to fight human nature and
thats a lot to ask for even from the most excellent members of the
community.
p.s. i will not name the council members who have fallen asleep in the
space out of respect, i will say that i have no pity for one of them
who is currently up for ban, and if the community actually cares about
this space they will make sure he does not enter it again, i am
already posted my condensed version of meeting notes based on varied
evidence from community people which include for members and council
members.
p.s.2 one last thing, i have come to realize that some of the most
respected people in noisebridge are not council members or even
members and this word council presupposes a level of excellence that
doesn't exist and was not a filter which was necessary to become a
council member. Please take that into account, along with the obvious
fact that this is not World of Warcraft even though the tuesday
meetings may resemble wars between the Alliance and the Hoard.
Sent using Hushmail
On 02/26/2014 at 1:13 AM, "Jeffrey Carl Faden" wrote:Sure. Why do you
feel comfortable putting Noisebridge's lease in danger by sleeping
there?
Jeffrey
On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:10 PM, hush.hat at hushmail.com wrote:
Yes i do not code yet, still a script kiddie, my background is more
hardware than software, we were building 8 4gb ram dell's from all the
computer pile and filtering the e-junk, the coding was done by sid who
was teaching how to do commands on the new OS that was being
installed. He will be at the meeting and can answer all your questions
and Qbit can verify the activity if anyone wishes to confirm these
claims. I hope this helps, feel free to ank me any more questions
Sent using Hushmail
On 02/26/2014 at 12:46 AM, "Jeffrey Carl Faden" wrote:Do Qbit or Sid
code? Is N0_Hat more of an ideas guy, or was he lying?
Jeffrey
On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Charles Tang wrote:
Nohat doesn't code—
Sent from Mailbox for iPhone
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden wrote:
What I don't understand is someone who is up coding all night claims
they're not computer-savvy enough to format their email correctly.
Jeffrey
On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:39 PM, Gregory Dillon wrote:
That false attack was written by someone trying to shift attention
from living at 2169. It happened the way I said and not the way the
third party to a hush mail account wrote . I don't think I am
supposed to respond right now to a rainbow of absolute falsehoods
I would like some sense of the community to know if people think it
is okay for me to note who is sleeping at 2169. If most of the
people think that taking notes of who lives at NB and leaves the mess
of food is a privacy violation inconsistent with the Noisebridge
vision - then Noisebridge isn't the place for me.
The conflict resolution process is important and valuable.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Naomi Most wrote:
Whoops, thought you had responded to the Mitch thread.
Regardless, the same is true here.
I'll explain myself at the meeting. If you don't come, I'll take
that
as a refusal to be reasonable. :)
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Naomi Most wrote:
> I mean that I am taking one of my few precious free evenings in
this
> life to come to Noisebridge and understand what the fuck went wrong
> here, and I expect that Lee Sonko should be there.
>
> I know you guys (Tom and Al) are doing a great job at the roles
you've
> set out for yourselves. You should keep doing them. We need to
> discuss how people can avoid invoking the powers you've assumed.
That
> includes yourselves.
>
> --Naomi
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Al Sweigart wrote:
>> Naomi, what do you mean by that?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Naomi Gmail wrote:
>>>
>>> "up for ban by Tom"
>>>
>>> The single most indicative phrase in the whole account.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Howard Tsu wrote:
>>>
>>> Supplementation: lack of communication and understanding on
behalf of both
>>> parties.
>>> Recent engagements have only been "you are sleeping" & "no I am
not."
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dude, are you plastering CGI boobs all over the Noisebridge
wiki?
>>>>
>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 3:19 PM, hush.hat at hushmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was surprised to be notified about User:Gregorydillon account
of the
>>>> events that occurred in the morning he asked me to leave. At the
bottom of
>>>> his lengthy discussion section is this section which i will edit
to fit my
>>>> account as well as the account witnessed by Qbit and Sid who
were in the
>>>> space with me at the time in the Hacker-torium:
>>>>
>>>> Asked Josh to leave this morning and not return until the
Tuesday meeting
>>>>
>>>> I asked Josh to leave this morning and not return until the
Tuesday
>>>> meeting. (true)
>>>>
>>>> I arrived about 6:30, (false 5:30) and put on the lights (turned
on all
>>>> the lights in the Hackertorium where 3 people were working in
the dark on
>>>> their computers with only light LED lights on). He became
incensed (false)
>>>> asked politley, "hay Greg can you turn the one by the electronic
equiptment
>>>> shelf off its kind of too bright for our eyes [all three peopl
in agreement,
>>>> 2 actually saying if he could turn all of them back off it was
too bright.
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillions responce: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!" screaming with
rage while
>>>> standing
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: "Um, i understand that but that is not what i mean Greg,
its just
>>>> the light is hurting out eyes and we have been coding all night
on a project
>>>> can you just turn off one of the 4 swiches, the one for the
electronics
>>>> shelf area off its putting strain on our eyes (he chose to sit
at the center
>>>> to the table on the elevator side of the table)."
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydilions responce: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!"
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: "Dude that has nothing to do with what i am askaing, i
am just
>>>> asking if you can turn off one of the swiches because its its
too early in
>>>> the morning and its straining our eyes."
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillion: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!!!!"
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: "Dude what are you talking about? i just asking you to
turn off
>>>> one of the lights what does your statement have to do with
that?"
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillion: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!! NOOO!! (storms off to make
some
>>>> coffee)
>>>>
>>>> leaving me, Sid, & Qbit wondering what would make him act in
such an
>>>> extreme manner.
>>>>
>>>> that I turned on the lights. A
>>>>
>>>> I walked away from him and began making a cup of coffee. He
turned light
>>>> off false
>>>>
>>>> When I came back there were 4 tea cups, with tea bag in most,
glasses (
>>>> one ), plates ( one ) and uneaten food on the common table (
just my bag of
>>>> nachos which were right next to my laptop that was on next to
all my stuff )
>>>> true: leftover from lastnight, none of which belonged to N0_Hat
or Qbit or
>>>> Sid. I asked who's? True and got no response.True, no reply was
given
>>>> because 1st it was not our's, 2nd because all three of us were
being spoken
>>>> to in a Authoritarian, Overly-Agressive Tone I began cleaning it
up, and
>>>> Josh went all argumentative again not to touch his food instead
of taking
>>>> the cups and dishes he grabbed an extra large bad of nachos
which belonged
>>>> to me and were half full seated directly infront of my jacket
covered chair
>>>> on the table which had my laptop and water bottle, what i said
was,
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat:"hay can you please not touch my food without my
permission like
>>>> that."
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillion: "Well i asked who's food this was (false)"
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: "no you didnt and i have already asked you about the
light but
>>>> you wont bother to turn off even one out of the four that i
asked for, so
>>>> since this is a do-ocracy, i guess i will do it myself.
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillon: NO YOU WON'T!!! in Agressively yelling
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: Yes, i wll and their is no obligation for anyone to take
orders
>>>> from you at Noisebridge, this is a do-ocracy and you have no
Authoritative
>>>> power over me or anyone else in this space. (take my food which
he is still
>>>> holding and go to put it back where it was next to my laptop) On
the way
>>>> back to the project i am working on my the audio equiptment i
say, "Gregory
>>>> please don't touch my stuff again like that without my
permission i consider
>>>> is extremely rude"
>>>>
>>>> I said he needs to acknowledge and clean. true Became more
argumentative.
>>>> false "Greg i get that you want to clean but please don't go
around just
>>>> peoples things from the table like that its extreamly rude and
>>>> inconsiderate"
>>>>
>>>> I asked him to leave true
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillion:"N0_HAT you know what, I want you out of here
now!")
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: What? what did I do???? why are you asking me to leave
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillon: "N0_HAT I SAID I WANT YOU OUT OF HERE NOW!!!"
screaming at
>>>> the top of his lungs.
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: Dude what are you talking about, i havent done anything"
>>>>
>>>> QBit: Dude you can't just ask N0_Hat to leave like that he
hasent done
>>>> anything to you!
>>>>
>>>> Sid: Greg you need to calm down you are over reacting, N0_Hat
hasent
>>>> done anything to deserve being asked to leave.
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillon: N0_HAT I WANT YOU OUT NOW!!!
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: "do you guys think i have done something wrong that i
should be
>>>> asked to leave?"
>>>>
>>>> Qbit: No just ignore him he is loosing it
>>>>
>>>> Sid: No you don't have to leave
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: dude majority vote by two members, i am sorry but i am
not going
>>>> anywhere, i have two witnesses here that know i havent done
anything that
>>>> deserves me being asked to leave
>>>>
>>>> and not return until the Tuesday meeting true. He said he wasn't
going
>>>> anywhere true and claimed that I was being rude. true
>>>>
>>>> hmmn (storms off mumbering to himself and slamming ever step
down the
>>>> stairs)
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat, Sid, & Qbit, left puzzled and shocked
>>>>
>>>> Qbit:"oh my god what is with that guy. He usually just works in
the
>>>> library which was completely empty why out of all days did he
pick today to
>>>> sit here and then on top of that act that crazy?"
>>>>
>>>> N0_Hat: "dude im not going to fuck up my morning trying to
figure that
>>>> guy out, he is loosing it, i just want to get back to work, lets
put some
>>>> music on to restore the vibe in here."
>>>>
>>>> Sid: (Laughing) WOWWW just when you think you get this place,
shit like
>>>> this happens"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----People who were witnesses that can confirm this to be a
true
>>>> account, two:
>>>> Qbit and Sid who were with me working the entire night and were
in the
>>>> hacker-torium when incident occurred
>>>>
>>>> ----People who can confirm Greg's account of what happened, zero
>>>>
>>>> further more on the Feb 19 post to his discussion tab claims,
and i
>>>> quote, " when I spoke to Josh we got to the mutual asked to
leave status"
>>>> [False] Gregorydillion was never asked to leave by anyone he
stormed off.
>>>>
>>>> Gregorydillon, please try to communicate with me and tell me,
Sid, and
>>>> Qbit why you behaved the way you did and why you felt the need
to leave out
>>>> so many details and facts that actually occurred, I am up for
ban my Tom for
>>>> not leaving and through i appreciate you expressing yourself the
community ,
>>>> this time i feel that i cannot ignore the actions you took
because they have
>>>> great effect on me in the Noisebridge community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, User:HelloHowardYou sent me a private email on Feb 19th
(which i
>>>> can provide as evidence) saying that he mediated this incident
with you,
>>>> this is a direct quote.
>>>> "This morning I have spoken with Greg about what happened this
morning,
>>>> and he recognized that he handles the situation with previous
judgments as
>>>> he should have communicated more- in that when entering the
space and seeing
>>>> people having turned the lights off he should have asked first
instead of
>>>> imposing his actions onto everyone around. He also recognized
that his
>>>> actions are antagonizing toward you, but rooting in the lack of
>>>> understanding and communication. A standard protocol in dealing
with
>>>> disagreements is when asked, both parties leave the space until
it can be
>>>> either mediated through conversation or to ask the community at
large to
>>>> assist in coming in terms of an agreement/solution. As unfair as
the
>>>> situation was, I believe the best procedure is to reach out to
Greg and come
>>>> to a terms of solution. As of this morning, he has agreed to not
come back
>>>> to the space until next Tuesday if you are willing to do the
same (no i was
>>>> not willing but he decided to stay away from the space anyway)
(no more
>>>> morning check-ups(authoritarian domineering pacing up and down
the space
>>>> with his camera phone out in anticipation to take a picture
selectively
>>>> amoung the people in the space of anyone who is napping or dosed
off and
>>>> then getting on his wiki survalence blog to write about it ).
Instead of
>>>> resorting to two people being absent from the space, an open
line of
>>>> communication may help assist with arriving at a win/win
situation. (i was
>>>> never once been contacted my Gregory)"
>>>>
>>>> Randomly running into User Flamsmark at Noisebridge and asking
to speak
>>>> with him regarding ban proposals i had put forth and my
pseudonym not being
>>>> used even after notifying Gregorydillon multiple times and
asking 3
>>>> different Council Members to tell him as well when he did not
comply due to
>>>> security risk it causes me. Eight minutes into the conversation
which
>>>> happened when the meeting was done. Conversation went something
like this:
>>>> User:Flamsmark: "N0_Hat is it true that you did not leave when
>>>> User:GregoryDillon asked you to leave?"
>>>> N0_Hat: "Yes, but he did it for no reason."
>>>> User:Flamsmark " N0_Hat i am asking you to leae Noisebridge
right now"
>>>> N0_Hat: "But why? i havent done anything wrong"
>>>> User: Flamsmark "Doesn't matter please leave Noisebridge
immediately."
>>>> N0_Hat: "I need a bit of time"
>>>> User: Flamsmark "You have 10 munutes"
>>>> N0_Hat: (starts packing belongings into research project
handhelf
>>>> briefcase and laptop into a second case used to carry netbook
and external
>>>> hardrives. Sid leaves Noisebridge with me and carried my laptop
briefcase)
>>>> (witness of this even taking place: Qbit and Sid)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Naomi Theora Most
> naomi at nthmost.com
> +1-415-728-7490
>
> skype: nthmost
>
> http://twitter.com/nthmost
--
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490
skype: nthmost
http://twitter.com/nthmost
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--
Let's stay in touch. Greg
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