[Noisebridge-discuss] Fwd: Re: N0_Hat's reaction to User:Gergorydillon perception of events leading to Ban Request my User:Flamsmark

Thu Feb 27 17:06:25 UTC 2014

Ok.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 6:48 AM, <hush.hat at hushmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Sent using Hushmail
>
>
> ----- Forwarded message from hush.hat at hushmail.com -----
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:55:15 +0000
>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] N0_Hat's reaction to User:Gergorydillon
> perception of events leading to Ban Request my User:Flamsmark
> To: "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>
> I don't feel comfortable at all if indeed i was sleeping which is a term
> that implies 7-10 hours of sleep consisting of 2 to 3 biorhythm cycles
> at most i nap for 3 hours which is 1 cycle and use the designated space
> for sleep hacking set up by council member JC for that exact purpose.
> I have double and triple checked with Council members to find that their
> is no policy against sleeping at Noisebridge. I at most have done this
> every other day, and have woken up people snoring who are disturbing people
> and waking up people who are regulars in the space sleeping is places other
> than the hacker stacker and advising them to use it and that i will be
> happy to wake them in 3 hours.
>
> I have done sleep hacking since the age of 20 and personally i think that
> a black and white system has created a divide in the community that forces
> people to fight human nature and hide to sleep. It should be taken into
> account that a two degree drop in temperate in a place which is not heated
> like noisebridge with intensified cooling due to stagnation of blood with
> excessive static posture causes a chemical to be release in the brain that
> makes people fall asleep instantly.
>
> The hybrid hacker stacker in the space is a good buffer for people who are
> here hacking on stuff long hours. Also i have seen no 7-10 hour sleepers
> take interest in it, the only people who have use it for a maximum for
> three and then their timer goes off or the person they asked to wake them
> from their nap does so. Once in a while people will dose off in their chair
> with their laptop still on and then wake up after 10 minuts, its just the
> reality of the space.
>
> The people who use the hacker stacker self police each other since their
> is only one. The scarcity is a dynamic which promotes accountability and
> the ones who sleep outside the hacker stacker loose face and are asked to
> stop because then the hacker stacker might be banned thus giving incentive
> to stop resident sleepers.
>
> In a black and while policy the only incentive is to lie or hide which
> creates divide in the community and causes friction. It also eats up
> precious time of council members like Al and Monad who come in the morning
> and sacrifice their time to patrol the space.
> The hybrid is more efficient and effective as a model to keep the peace at
> Noisebridge without extremes happening like with what happened to Robert
> where he chose to do something as extreme as sleeping on top of the
> elevator because their were no options he could find and he was motivated
> by fear of being banned.
>
> I believe with a hybrid model we would not have to had the entire drama
> and banning of Robert who was a valuable member of the community and did
> much excellent things to help Noisebridge. I am not saying its right or
> wrong but its a bridge toward a win win dynamic where people take
> responsibility and accountability, and for those who don't, they become
> surrounded by people who are being excellent and are.
>
> Sleep hacking is 3 hours max under the scientific definition which is one
> biorhythm sleep cycle and it is the field i have been in for a long time
> and taught professionally at a time also.
> Dosing off is usually a max of 24 min before deep sleep kicks in and one
> enters deep theta.
> Sleeping is 7-10 hours which is 3 biorhythm sleep cycles.
> Resident sleepers and Sleepers don't use the hacker stacker because they
> don't want to be woken up hence one is a hybrid solution and one is the
> problem Noisebridge has been try to eliminate for a long time as far as my
> understanding goes from the days of occupy. But i don't go that far back i
> am pretty new here compared to many who use the analysis and contrast of
> that past to design future projections of Noisebridge. I believe the
> dynamics are different, and being someone who has seen more than anyone of
> what goes on here because i only sleep 3 hours as a normal mode of life
> consistently, i can tell you that the people who use the hacker stacker are
> all as far as i have seen people who are excellent in the space and of
> great value to the space and the community.
>
> I respect your view, and i know what i am proposing may sound unreasonable
> but a black and while model is a win/lose model that that model despite the
> approach has never worked and it never will because it promoted the
> motivation of the individual to fight human nature and thats a lot to ask
> for even from the most excellent members of the community.
>
> p.s. i will not name the council members who have fallen asleep in the
> space out of respect, i will say that i have no pity for one of them who is
> currently up for ban, and if the community actually cares about this space
> they will make sure he does not enter it again, i am already posted my
> condensed version of meeting notes based on varied evidence from community
> people which include for members and council members.
>
> p.s.2 one last thing, i have come to realize that some of the most
> respected people in noisebridge are not council members or even members and
> this word council presupposes a level of excellence that doesn't exist and
> was not a filter which was necessary to become a council member. Please
> take that into account, along with the obvious fact that this is not World
> of Warcraft even though the tuesday meetings may resemble wars between the
> Alliance and the Hoard.
>
> Sent using Hushmail
>
>
>
> On 02/26/2014 at 1:13 AM, "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Sure. Why do you feel comfortable putting Noisebridge's lease in danger by
> sleeping there?
>
> Jeffrey
>
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 5:10 PM, hush.hat at hushmail.com wrote:
>
> Yes i do not code yet, still a script kiddie,  my background is more
> hardware than software, we were building 8 4gb ram dell's from all the
> computer pile and filtering the e-junk, the coding was done by sid who was
> teaching how to do commands on the new OS that was being installed. He will
> be at the meeting and can answer all your questions and Qbit can verify the
> activity if anyone wishes to confirm these claims. I hope this helps, feel
> free to ank me any more questions
>
>
>
> Sent using Hushmail
>
>
> On 02/26/2014 at 12:46 AM, "Jeffrey Carl Faden" <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Do Qbit or Sid code? Is N0_Hat more of an ideas guy, or was he lying?
>
> Jeffrey
>
> On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Charles Tang <cjtang1 at asu.edu> wrote:
>
> Nohat doesn't code
> --
> Sent from Mailbox <https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox> for iPhone
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:42 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> What I don't understand is someone who is up coding all night claims
>> they're not computer-savvy enough to format their email correctly.
>>
>> Jeffrey
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:39 PM, Gregory Dillon <gregorydillon at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  That false attack was written by someone trying to shift  attention
>> from living at 2169.  It happened the way I said  and not the way the third
>> party to a hush mail account wrote .  I don't think I am supposed to
>> respond right now to a rainbow of absolute falsehoods
>>
>> I would like some sense of the community to know if people think it is
>> okay for me to note who is sleeping at 2169.   If most of the people think
>> that taking notes of who lives at NB and leaves the mess of food is a
>> privacy violation inconsistent with the Noisebridge vision -  then
>> Noisebridge isn't the place for me.
>>
>> The conflict resolution process is important and valuable.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Whoops, thought you had responded to the Mitch thread.
>>>
>>> Regardless, the same is true here.
>>>
>>> I'll explain myself at the meeting.  If you don't come, I'll take that
>>> as a refusal to be reasonable.  :)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I mean that I am taking one of my few precious free evenings in this
>>> > life to come to Noisebridge and understand what the fuck went wrong
>>> > here, and I expect that Lee Sonko should be there.
>>> >
>>> > I know you guys (Tom and Al) are doing a great job at the roles you've
>>> > set out for yourselves.  You should keep doing them.  We need to
>>> > discuss how people can avoid invoking the powers you've assumed.  That
>>> > includes yourselves.
>>> >
>>> > --Naomi
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> Naomi, what do you mean by that?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Naomi Gmail <pnaomi at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "up for ban by Tom"
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The single most indicative phrase in the whole account.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Howard Tsu <howard.tsu at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Supplementation: lack of communication and understanding on behalf
>>> of both
>>> >>> parties.
>>> >>> Recent engagements have only been "you are sleeping" & "no I am not."
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <
>>> jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Dude, are you plastering CGI boobs all over the Noisebridge wiki?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Jeffrey
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 3:19 PM, hush.hat at hushmail.com wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I was surprised to be notified about User:Gregorydillon account of
>>> the
>>> >>>> events that occurred in the morning he asked me to leave. At the
>>> bottom of
>>> >>>> his lengthy discussion section is this section which i will edit to
>>> fit my
>>> >>>> account as well as the account witnessed by Qbit and Sid who were
>>> in the
>>> >>>> space with me at the time in the Hacker-torium:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Asked Josh to leave this morning and not return until the Tuesday
>>> meeting
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I asked Josh to leave this morning and not return until the Tuesday
>>> >>>> meeting. (true)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I arrived about 6:30, (false 5:30) and put on the lights (turned on
>>> all
>>> >>>> the lights in the Hackertorium where 3 people were working in the
>>> dark on
>>> >>>> their computers with only light LED lights on). He became incensed
>>> (false)
>>> >>>> asked politley, "hay Greg can you turn the one by the electronic
>>> equiptment
>>> >>>> shelf off its kind of too bright for our eyes [all three peopl in
>>> agreement,
>>> >>>> 2 actually saying if he could turn all of them back off it was too
>>> bright.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillions responce: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!" screaming with rage
>>> while
>>> >>>> standing
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "Um, i understand that but that is not what i mean Greg,
>>> its just
>>> >>>> the light is hurting out eyes and we have been coding all night on
>>> a project
>>> >>>> can you just turn off one of the 4 swiches, the one for the
>>> electronics
>>> >>>> shelf area off its putting strain on our eyes (he chose to sit at
>>> the center
>>> >>>> to the table on the elevator side of the table)."
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydilions responce: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "Dude that has nothing to do with what i am askaing, i am
>>> just
>>> >>>> asking if you can turn off one of the swiches because its its too
>>> early in
>>> >>>> the morning and its straining our eyes."
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillion: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!!!!"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "Dude what are you talking about? i just asking you to turn
>>> off
>>> >>>> one of the lights what does your statement have to do with that?"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillion: "I JUST GOT HERE!!!! NOOO!! (storms off to make some
>>> >>>> coffee)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> leaving me, Sid, & Qbit wondering what would make him act in such an
>>> >>>> extreme manner.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> that I turned on the lights. A
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I walked away from him and began making a cup of coffee. He turned
>>> light
>>> >>>> off false
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> When I came back there were 4 tea cups, with tea bag in most,
>>> glasses (
>>> >>>> one ), plates ( one ) and uneaten food on the common table ( just
>>> my bag of
>>> >>>> nachos which were right next to my laptop that was on next to all
>>> my stuff )
>>> >>>> true: leftover from lastnight, none of which belonged to N0_Hat or
>>> Qbit or
>>> >>>> Sid. I asked who's? True and got no response.True, no reply was
>>> given
>>> >>>> because 1st it was not our's, 2nd because all three of us were
>>> being spoken
>>> >>>> to in a Authoritarian, Overly-Agressive Tone I began cleaning it
>>> up, and
>>> >>>> Josh went all argumentative again not to touch his food instead of
>>> taking
>>> >>>> the cups and dishes he grabbed an extra large bad of nachos which
>>> belonged
>>> >>>> to me and were half full seated directly infront of my jacket
>>> covered chair
>>> >>>> on the table which had my laptop and water bottle, what i said was,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat:"hay can you please not touch my food without my permission
>>> like
>>> >>>> that."
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillion: "Well i asked who's food this was (false)"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "no you didnt and i have already asked you about the light
>>> but
>>> >>>> you wont bother to turn off even one out of the four that i asked
>>> for, so
>>> >>>> since this is a do-ocracy, i guess i will do it myself.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillon: NO YOU WON'T!!! in Agressively yelling
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: Yes, i wll and their is no obligation for anyone to take
>>> orders
>>> >>>> from you at Noisebridge, this is a do-ocracy and you have no
>>> Authoritative
>>> >>>> power over me or anyone else in this space. (take my food which he
>>> is still
>>> >>>> holding and go to put it back where it was next to my laptop) On
>>> the way
>>> >>>> back to the project i am working on my the audio equiptment i say,
>>> "Gregory
>>> >>>> please don't touch my stuff again like that without my permission i
>>> consider
>>> >>>> is extremely rude"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I said he needs to acknowledge and clean. true Became more
>>> argumentative.
>>> >>>> false "Greg i get that you want to clean but please don't go around
>>> just
>>> >>>> peoples things from the table like that its extreamly rude and
>>> >>>> inconsiderate"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I asked him to leave true
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillion:"N0_HAT you know what, I want you out of here now!")
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: What? what did I do???? why are you asking me to leave
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillon: "N0_HAT I SAID I WANT YOU OUT OF HERE NOW!!!"
>>> screaming at
>>> >>>> the top of his lungs.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: Dude what are you talking about, i havent done anything"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> QBit: Dude you can't just ask N0_Hat to leave like that he hasent
>>> done
>>> >>>> anything to you!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>  Sid: Greg you need to calm down you are over reacting, N0_Hat
>>> hasent
>>> >>>> done anything to deserve being asked to leave.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillon: N0_HAT I WANT YOU OUT NOW!!!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "do you guys think i have done something wrong that i
>>> should be
>>> >>>> asked to leave?"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Qbit: No just ignore him he is loosing it
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Sid: No you don't have to leave
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: dude majority vote by two members, i am sorry but i am not
>>> going
>>> >>>> anywhere, i have two witnesses here that know i havent done
>>> anything that
>>> >>>> deserves me being asked to leave
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> and not return until the Tuesday meeting true. He said he wasn't
>>> going
>>> >>>> anywhere true and claimed that I was being rude. true
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> hmmn (storms off mumbering to himself and slamming ever step down
>>> the
>>> >>>> stairs)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat, Sid, & Qbit, left puzzled and shocked
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Qbit:"oh my god what is with that guy. He usually just works in the
>>> >>>> library which was completely empty why out of all days did he pick
>>> today to
>>> >>>> sit here and then on top of that act that crazy?"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "dude im not going to fuck up my morning trying to figure
>>> that
>>> >>>> guy out, he is loosing it, i just want to get back to work, lets
>>> put some
>>> >>>> music on to restore the vibe in here."
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Sid: (Laughing) WOWWW just when you think you get this place, shit
>>> like
>>> >>>> this happens"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -----People who were witnesses that can confirm this to be a true
>>> >>>> account, two:
>>> >>>> Qbit and Sid who were with me working the entire night and were in
>>> the
>>> >>>> hacker-torium when incident occurred
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> ----People who can confirm Greg's account of what happened, zero
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> further more on the Feb  19 post to his discussion tab claims, and i
>>> >>>> quote, " when I spoke to Josh we got to the mutual asked to leave
>>> status"
>>> >>>> [False] Gregorydillion was never asked to leave by anyone he
>>> stormed off.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Gregorydillon, please try to communicate with me and tell me, Sid,
>>> and
>>> >>>> Qbit why you behaved the way you did and why you felt the need to
>>> leave out
>>> >>>> so many details and facts that actually occurred, I am up for ban
>>> my Tom for
>>> >>>> not leaving and through i appreciate you expressing yourself the
>>> community ,
>>> >>>> this time i feel that i cannot ignore the actions you took because
>>> they have
>>> >>>> great effect on me in the Noisebridge community.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Also, User:HelloHowardYou sent me a private email on Feb 19th
>>> (which i
>>> >>>> can provide as evidence) saying that he mediated this incident with
>>> you,
>>> >>>> this is a direct quote.
>>> >>>> "This morning I have spoken with Greg about what happened this
>>> morning,
>>> >>>> and he recognized that he handles the situation with previous
>>> judgments as
>>> >>>> he should have communicated more- in that when entering the space
>>> and seeing
>>> >>>> people having turned the lights off he should have asked first
>>> instead of
>>> >>>> imposing his actions onto everyone around. He also recognized that
>>> his
>>> >>>> actions are antagonizing toward you, but rooting in the lack of
>>> >>>> understanding and communication. A standard protocol in dealing with
>>> >>>> disagreements is when asked, both parties leave the space until it
>>> can be
>>> >>>> either mediated through conversation or to ask the community at
>>> large to
>>> >>>> assist in coming in terms of an agreement/solution. As unfair as the
>>> >>>> situation was, I believe the best procedure is to reach out to Greg
>>> and come
>>> >>>> to a terms of solution. As of this morning, he has agreed to not
>>> come back
>>> >>>> to the space until next Tuesday if you are willing to do the same
>>> (no i was
>>> >>>> not willing but he decided to stay away from the space anyway) (no
>>> more
>>> >>>> morning check-ups(authoritarian domineering pacing up and down the
>>> space
>>> >>>> with his camera phone out in anticipation to take a picture
>>> selectively
>>> >>>> amoung the people in the space of anyone who is napping or dosed
>>> off and
>>> >>>> then getting on his wiki survalence blog to write about it ).
>>> Instead of
>>> >>>> resorting to two people being absent from the space, an open line of
>>> >>>> communication may help assist with arriving at a win/win situation.
>>> (i was
>>> >>>> never once been contacted my Gregory)"
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Randomly running into User Flamsmark at Noisebridge and asking to
>>> speak
>>> >>>> with him regarding ban proposals i had put forth and my pseudonym
>>> not being
>>> >>>> used even after notifying Gregorydillon multiple times and asking 3
>>> >>>> different Council Members to tell him as well when he did not
>>> comply due to
>>> >>>> security risk it causes me. Eight minutes into the conversation
>>> which
>>> >>>> happened when the meeting was done. Conversation went something
>>> like this:
>>> >>>> User:Flamsmark: "N0_Hat is it true that you did not leave when
>>> >>>> User:GregoryDillon asked you to leave?"
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "Yes, but he did it for no reason."
>>> >>>> User:Flamsmark " N0_Hat i am asking you to leae Noisebridge right
>>> now"
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "But why? i havent done anything wrong"
>>> >>>> User: Flamsmark "Doesn't matter please leave Noisebridge
>>> immediately."
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: "I need a bit of time"
>>> >>>> User: Flamsmark "You have 10 munutes"
>>> >>>> N0_Hat: (starts packing belongings into research project handhelf
>>> >>>> briefcase and laptop into a second case used to carry netbook and
>>> external
>>> >>>> hardrives. Sid leaves Noisebridge with me and carried my laptop
>>> briefcase)
>>> >>>> (witness of this even taking place: Qbit and Sid)
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> <46b76da87dd1f6d1fa054b7b595948f0.jpg>_______________________________________________
>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Naomi Theora Most
>>> > naomi at nthmost.com
>>> > +1-415-728-7490
>>> >
>>> > skype: nthmost
>>> >
>>> > http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>
>>> skype: nthmost
>>>
>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>

-- 
Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
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