[Noisebridge-discuss] Critiquing and Money

Thu Jan 9 23:21:32 UTC 2014

Hi Scotty,

ABOUT CRITIQUING:

Scotty, you are free to ignore my posts if you don't like reading them. 
So can Al. But please don't dictate to me what i can and cannot discuss.

I've repeatedly expressed my appreciation for Al's efforts. I'm not 
trying to be shitty to anyone. It's the lockers i'm critiquing, not Al. 
We have to be able to critique proposals and actions affecting all of 
us, without it being viewed as a personal attack. We all have a right to 
critique things people do in the commons, just as Al vehemently 
critiqued J.C. last week.

My critiques of lockers echo concerns voiced by others. I'm not alone:

     "Open for abuse by people not working on projects at Noisebridge"
     "Locker point of contact has too much power"
     "Noisebridge not in the business of providing secure storage for a 
fee"
     "Folks with shelf space can install personal lockers"
     "Odd to introduce paywalls at Noisebridge"

https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_12_10#Lockers_at_Noisebridge
Scotty wrote: "It looks like you've subsequently edited the [locker] FAQ 
to remove ...responses [Al] made to you ...which seems pretty 
unexcellent."

I removed my comments from Al's FAQ, because Al copied my comments from 
Discuss and pasted them into the wiki, without asking me first if it was 
cool. That wasn't excellent. i invited him to respond to my comments 
where i posted them, here on Discuss. As Jeffrey Carl observed 
yesterday, the list is the place for discussion.

About being shitty to people, enjoy these fine words from Al in December 
(btw 134 posts by Al in December):

     "Twats like you are what are ruining the space. It's retards like 
you who will be this hacker space's downfall. Go fuck yourself you 
insolent retard. I hope that you choke on your own dick however small it 
may be."
https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/2013-December/041095.html

That just plain abusive, it's sexual language used abusively, and a 
clear violation of the harassment policy. IMO, Al should be banned from 
the list, if not Noisebridge entirely, just for that.

ABOUT MONEY:

Scotty, you're right (i can say that). Anyone including Al can spend 
their own money on anything they want. And anyone is free to donate to 
Al to help pay for them.

I am weighing in on the question "Should Noisebridge spend $500 on 
lockers", not "Should Al spend $500 on lockers".

Al proposed a consensus item on 12/17 that Noisebridge pay for them:

     "Al: Noisebridge will spend up to $1000 on purchasing lockers"

https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_12_17#Consensus_items

As Al posted on the wiki a few days ago, he is still hoping Noisebridge 
will pay him back. Al is also insisting that people pay locker 
rental-fees to him directly, not to Noisebridge. That makes me 
uncomfortable.

Why couldn't Al BUILD some lockers? We're a hackerspace. That would save 
money. When the stove needed upgrading, Jared got out his toolbox and 
upgraded it with his own hands. Al claimed that building them would be 
more expensive than buying them-- that's an anti-hacking mentality.

Did you read Danny's recent post, that Noisebridge will run out of money 
within 12 months? I read that, and then i see the prospect of 
Noisebridge spending $500 on a non-essential, so i'm concerned.

Maybe, as Dean observed, locker rental-fees are way to help RAISE some 
funds for nb. I can see how that might be a good idea.

But, Noisebridge has a long, strong culture of not charging fees for 
anything. Maybe that's not a big deal to you, but some Members have 
pushed passionately for years to keep Noisebridge free, and I agree with 
them. (Leif, where you at?) This is the first time in my 3 years here, 
that people have to pay to use part of Noisebridge. I may be wrong (i 
can say that), but this seems like a big departure from tradition, so i 
think it's important we take a close look at it. Maybe it's ok, maybe 
not. But i think it's not trivial.

Should we put a coinbox on the laser-cutter next? And let Rayc collect 
the money?

ABOUT THESE LOCKERS:
Scotty wrote:
>the "we can't trust nice things to not wander off" is a far larger 
>problem

your comment would totally make sense, if these lockers were intended as 
storage for Noisebridge resources. But they aren't.

>If I had to choose, I'd much rather have a noisebridge where people 
>were working on a bunch of awesome projects than one that had a full 
>supply of drill bits and electronic parts.

Um.... don't we need tools and parts in order to do awesome projects? 
I'd love a place to stash my stuff when I go for dinner, but i'd love 
batteries and drill bits and screwdrivers much more. Or are you saying 
Noisebridge is really just for computer hackers?

IMO, a Noisebridge WITH tools and NO lockers is a Hackerspace.
A Noisebridge WITH lockers and NO tools is a homeless shelter.
Scotty, I agreed with your comments last year that putting a washer and 
dryer in Noisebridge would encourage squatting. Tho i also agree with 
Dean that, ideally, resources should not be restricted because of those 
who exploit the resources-- exploiters should leave. That's not 
happening.

>   might turn out to be a solution to one of the HUGE problems facing 
>Noisebridge which is the "we can't ....leave nice projects in the 
>space."

I agree, that's a big problem; i just disagree with this locker 
solution. It's the wrong form-factor for storing projects. Something 
like this is more appropriate, especially if turned sideways:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/4279076442.html

The reason Al gave for buying these without more discussion was that the 
Craiglist seller was about to sell out, and we'd lose our chance! This 
makes me uncomfortable, because in about 5 minutes i found plenty of 
lockers, most cheaper than what Al got:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/for/4277050541.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bfs/4277598589.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/fuo/4271203402.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/fud/4279534890.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bfd/4257986218.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/fuo/4275902832.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bfd/4238372453.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/fuo/4280021619.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/fud/4265396157.html
http://r.ebay.com/7f8yWo
http://r.ebay.com/fhQKQJ
http://r.ebay.com/f3mSUT
http://r.ebay.com/QQrJKz
http://r.ebay.com/UrJQ9D

>I think you've done some really awesome things at NB.

Well, thanks!

thanks for the dialog.

Best wishes,
-JR