[Noisebridge-discuss] Gamebridge?

Romy Ilano romy at snowyla.com
Sun Jan 19 01:23:16 UTC 2014


You know what, this conversation was actually very useful. I'm on my way to
making my first open source SudoRoom and Noisebridge educational game.

Despite all the public character assassination, i think this was a useful
thread overall.

When you're in charge, Alex, as you're learning, you're the one to blame
when everything fails! That's just the way it is =D And character
assassination is part of the game. I sure know how it feels.



=============================

Romy Ilano
romy at snowyla.com




On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Oren Beck <orenbeck at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can we signal boost that?
>
> "Hackerspace is for Hacking"
>
> On 1/19/14, Romy Snowyla <romy at snowyla.com> wrote:
> > Id also like to go to noisebridge return to it's equilibrium of mostly
> being
> > about hacking.
> >
> > I'm very tired of going there and sudoroom and having people waste most
> of
> > my time trying to promote some offsite company product or to get me to
> > attend five minutes of fame to hear a bunch of commercials,
> >
> > It's ok to advertise in small doses but this is a hackerspace not a
> public
> > relations firm. It gets to the point where I get stuff done if I avoid
> > interacting with anyone .
> >
> > Plus hacking speaks for itself. I can see on github whether people are
> > contributing or not or if they're just out to assault me with some
> company's
> > PowerPoint
> >
> > Let's keep the hacking in the hackerspace
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jan 18, 2014, at 8:59 AM, Oren Beck <orenbeck at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok- I'm going to take a whack at restoring vibes of Be Excellent To Each
> >> Other!
> >>
> >> Let's be adult and honest here- PASSION in one's crafts simply is what
> >> sets many of us apart as "Role Models" and i see that while we DO have
> >> honorless louts that are pure thieves- others get blinded by passion or
> >> simple lack of clue... We see both the skills and the fails?
> >>
> >> From which the Truly Dark Sides gain a power we might contemplate being
> >> scared shitless of. Scared  so by what I call the NOD Rule:
> >>
> >>  A tech guru is not inherently a #DEITY. Not Our Deity means- they're
> >> HUMAN and can screw up on so many levels as can ANY of us.
> >>
> >> I hope my point is taken at the simplest evaluation. Cherish the skills
> >> some folks have. Pardon them for being mere humans. Remind them as
> others
> >> have- bad acts are unacceptable =NOT EXCELLENT.
> >>
> >>
> >> TealDeer: LIVE by the   Be Excellent Meme.  Oh yeah- that does include
> the
> >> needful compartmentalization of skills from misdeeds.
> >>
> >> Constructive comemts on list- flame me  privately to keep drama off
> list:>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Oren Beck
> >>
> >> 816.632.3695
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 12:41 AM, Romy Snowyla <romy at snowyla.com>
> wrote:
> >>> It's also common to see people at noisebridge bashing VC as if they
> were
> >>> all dumb.
> >>>
> >>> Well wow kick starter doesn't have due diligence does it. ? Kick
> starter
> >>> doesn't have a board if directors that will dis your collective
> consensus
> >>> bs that refuses to fire your best buddy and no board that pushes back
> >>> when you hire a gigantic team?
> >>>
> >>> Geez.
> >>> ;)
> >>> All of these would've been prevented by a good VC. They don't generally
> >>> invest less than a million in a company that would expect to pay more
> >>> than two or three engineers a living wage. Of $70k either
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Jan 18, 2014, at 8:30 AM, Adrian Chadd <adrian.chadd at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Romy,
> >>>>
> >>>> It's the dirty side of the startup culture. Everything is hyped, all
> >>>> ideas will change the world.. and less than 1% of 1% of them will.
> Those
> >>>> that succeed stand to make stupid amounts of money and/or fame, but
> the
> >>>> rest .. fall into this kind of category. They have this kind of drama.
> >>>> The people involved end up this kind of burnt out.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm disenheartened by the comments left on the website. People took a
> >>>> risk on kickstarter and now they want their money back? It's a risk.
> >>>> Unless you have proof that Alex mis-spent $170k, it's totally easy to
> >>>> spend $170k on legitimate business purchases and run out of cash
> before
> >>>> delivering. People are .. expensive.
> >>>>
> >>>> I meet plenty of people with similar drive, similar ideas, and similar
> >>>> experiences in Silicon Valley.
> >>>>
> >>>> Alex - I hope you've learnt your lesson. :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> -a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 18 January 2014 08:18, Romy Snowyla <romy at snowyla.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Al
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All these guys angry at Alex are complaining about how they didn't
> get
> >>>>> credit.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why don't they come out of the woodwork and take credit for the
> >>>>> failure?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why don't they take credit for the product sucking? It really wasn't
> >>>>> that great.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why don't these angry people take credit for trying to run a company
> by
> >>>>> consensus and too many chefs spoiling the soup?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They are all so eager to blame Alex for the failure.. But they want
> >>>>> credit for any success. It's confusing. Why pin the failure on one
> >>>>> person and then greedily grab credit if there's success ?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's very childish!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also think anyone quitting their job expecting a great wage from a
> >>>>> company with only $170K in funding is pretty foolish. I'm not saying
> >>>>> anyone deserves bad fortune but it's easy to blame others for your
> lack
> >>>>> of foresight
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm also wondering how any company can raise money without a
> figurehead
> >>>>> like Alex. You want to raise a couple million by consensus ? Without
> a
> >>>>> spokesperson ? Forget it
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You're all so eager to blame Alex for your troubles .., why not share
> >>>>> it if you were all so eager to share the success?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jan 17, 2014, at 8:44 PM, Aduct lex Peake
> >>>>>> <empowerthyself at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Al:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It pains me that you think ill of me because I highly respect you,
> >>>>>> your book, your work teaching programming, and your contributions to
> >>>>>> Noisebridge. (The lockers you added recently are amazing.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I do think your view of me and my work is based on incomplete and
> >>>>>> inaccurate reports by journalists, online critics and disappointed
> >>>>>> team members.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As bleak as the picture they paint of me and Code Hero may seem, it
> is
> >>>>>> not the whole story.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I know you've posted negative remarks about me online in the past
> and
> >>>>>> I regret not speaking to you previously.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've responded to backer concerns already, but as a fellow
> Noisebridge
> >>>>>> community member bringing this up on the mailing list your concerns
> >>>>>> deserve an answer here.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I would like to take this opportunity to clear a few things up.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd also like to speak to you in person so you can express whatever
> >>>>>> concerns you have with me and we can address them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> TLDR:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I started Code Hero to make a game that teaches people programming.
> I
> >>>>>> was inexperienced at the outset and made a lot of mistakes along the
> >>>>>> way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I overreached on the design and tried to do more than our
> Kickstarter
> >>>>>> budget allowed for, our team ran out of funding and we all suffered
> >>>>>> because of that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I didn't update Kickstarter backers often enough and I upset a lot
> of
> >>>>>> people who felt betrayed because they thought I had abandoned the
> >>>>>> project I've never stopped working on Code Hero and it has come a
> long
> >>>>>> way closer to completion since then.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I apologized to everyone who was hurt by my miscommunication about
> our
> >>>>>> setbacks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I promised to deliver what people were owed and I continue working
> >>>>>> with the development team to achieve that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I apologized to David and everyone on the team who worked without
> pay
> >>>>>> at the end of our funding and I do so again now for not being able
> to
> >>>>>> pay folks until we first fulfill our obligations to the backers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I apologize to you Al as a member of the Noisebridge community for
> the
> >>>>>> negativity this cloud of disappointment has made you feel.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We're now working hard on the game and delivering backer T-shirt
> >>>>>> rewards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You can try the latest beta at http://www.primerlabs.com (click
> Guest
> >>>>>> Mode in-game) and let us know what you think.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For Al and whomever else wants to know more of the Code Hero's
> >>>>>> history:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I started Code Hero, a game that teaches Unity game programming.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I applied to YCombinator with a friend and we recruited a small team
> >>>>>> to help build the prototype.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We got interviewed but didn't get accepted to YCombinator.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The team split up after that, as often happens with teams who are
> >>>>>> counting on funding and don't get it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I continued working on it for a year and raised a small amount of
> >>>>>> money to survive..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I released a first alpha that taught the player enough to solve
> >>>>>> Portal-like puzzle levels and beat FizzBoss.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The game showed enough promise that it was time to hire a team to
> work
> >>>>>> on it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We raised $170K on Kickstarter with the help of many supporters.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We hired and paid most of the team to work on it full time. Some of
> us
> >>>>>> already had jobs and worked on it part-time. David was one of those.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We worked together at IGN's Indie Open House incubator alongside
> other
> >>>>>> indie game dev teams and learned a lot from them and other game dev
> >>>>>> mentors.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> An investor offered to fund us beyond the Kickstarter and we worked
> >>>>>> with them to set up the company for that to happen.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We were invited by Kickstarter to exhibit with them at PAX East and
> we
> >>>>>> showed the second alpha there with a new orientation level.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We worked on it more to implement the rest of the game's
> introductory
> >>>>>> levels and level editor gameplay mechanics.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We were invited to show the third alpha at PAX Prime in the Indie
> >>>>>> Megabooth.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What we showed was a big step forward but it was still buggy and
> >>>>>> incomplete and there was a lot of work remaining.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> At that point we were nearly out of funds and were counting on the
> >>>>>> investor to fund us further.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> While we were there, the investor withdrew their offer and we were
> >>>>>> faced with a difficult financial situation:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If we continued working on it, there was no guarantee that we'd have
> >>>>>> the money to get paid for it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I paid some of the developers out of my own pocket at that point to
> >>>>>> keep things going but without a funding source, the paid team
> stopped
> >>>>>> working at the end of the month.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I and a few other volunteer programmers continued working on it and
> >>>>>> released more alphas.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We made Kickstarter updates, but there were long delays between them
> >>>>>> and Kickstarter backers got frustrated.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I tried to raise money to rehire team members to work on the project
> >>>>>> and I continued working on it unpaid.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Then some frustrated Kickstarter backers made threats and shared
> their
> >>>>>> complaints with journalists.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The writers spoke to some team members who were understandably
> >>>>>> disappointed at not getting paid after the project ran out of funds
> >>>>>> before completion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In our Kickstarter update, we apologized to backers for delays.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We vowed to fulfill backer rewards, to complete the game, to rebuild
> >>>>>> the team, and to eventually refund backers and repay teammates
> >>>>>> including David wages we couldn't pay when we ran out of funds.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I recruited a project coordinator who has helped organize our new
> team
> >>>>>> and I did contract work to earn enough money to start producing
> >>>>>> Kickstarter rewards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Since then, we've released Code Hero Beta 0.2 and we're preparing to
> >>>>>> print and ship the t-shirts for backers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You can download it at http://www.primerlabs.com and try it (just
> >>>>>> click Guest Mode in-game).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We've got a long way to go still.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We've been rewriting the server backend, redesigning the alpha
> levels
> >>>>>> to match the new beta level design style, and we welcome feedback
> and
> >>>>>> suggestions to make it better.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There are still many critics who've interpreted our delays between
> >>>>>> updates as proof that Code Hero is a scam, skeptics who think we
> can't
> >>>>>> finish the game, and worried supporters who wonder if we can pull it
> >>>>>> off.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Despite all the mistakes, setbacks and criticism so far we're
> learning
> >>>>>> from it and persevering to finish Code Hero.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We have a lot of enthusiasm to finish the game and teach people
> >>>>>> programming,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am also dedicated to teaching Unity programming at Noisebridge and
> >>>>>> I'd like to expand the number of teachers who can do that so it
> >>>>>> doesn't depend on just me and whomever I can bring to help teach for
> >>>>>> the class to happen.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've taught Gamebridge classes for over a year with a few breaks
> when
> >>>>>> travel or work prevented me from being there, and lately I've been
> too
> >>>>>> busy working on Code Hero to make it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If anybody is interested in learning Unity programming and/or
> learning
> >>>>>> to teach, I'll be expanding on the the teaching materials I've used
> >>>>>> for the classes at Noisebridge, Hack The Future and other workshops
> >>>>>> and sharing them in an organized spot with a mailing list for people
> >>>>>> who are teaching and attending to notify each other of class plans.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to hold a teacher teaching class soon and I'll contact
> >>>>>> everyone who contacts me with interest in participating.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> PS:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have not addressed every single concern or claim people have made
> >>>>>> here because this is already too long for those dedicated enough to
> >>>>>> read it all.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, I'll answer any questions people have via email or here.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Keep in mind that there are some made-up claims out there like
> people
> >>>>>> saying I flew to Amsterdam with Kickstarter funds.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In reality, I was paid including flight and expenses to teach a
> >>>>>> programming workshop in Amsterdam. No Kickstarter money was spent on
> >>>>>> that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> People speculated that we somehow misused our funds simply because
> >>>>>> they were worried at our lack of communication and assuming the
> >>>>>> worst.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We were required to keep careful accounting of project costs by
> >>>>>> investors who required us to spend project money carefully.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ᐧ
> >>>>>> The reality is one which many game projects have in common: We put
> all
> >>>>>> our resources into paying staff to build a game that took longer to
> >>>>>> finish than we had funding for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In hindsight, I should have made half as ambitious a game and
> polished
> >>>>>> it with the resources we had and set aside our bigger plans for
> >>>>>> component scripting and editor gameplay till after the first
> polished
> >>>>>> release.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What we completed with the funding we had was the technical core of
> >>>>>> the ambitious editor design, and what we're completing now is the
> >>>>>> polished content that makes good on that design one level at a time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I owe a thanks to those who speak up on my behalf, and I hope the
> >>>>>> critics will give us another chance as they see the game improve.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> If he's ever around the space again, I'll introduce you to David.
> He
> >>>>>>> was a 3D artist employed at a studio who left his job to work for
> >>>>>>> Alex. The agreement was that Alex would match his previous salary.
> >>>>>>> After 3 months, David was only paid for one month, and less than
> what
> >>>>>>> they had agreed on. David finally realized he wasn't going to ever
> >>>>>>> see a check, and quit. The thing is, this was only a couple months
> >>>>>>> after the Kickstarter, so Alex had plenty of funds. David will also
> >>>>>>> tell you how Alex's personality made him difficult to work with,
> how
> >>>>>>> he took credit for other people's work, and basically exploited
> >>>>>>> people who really believed in the project. There were several
> people
> >>>>>>> who worked with him, got fed up, and then left. He's always
> >>>>>>> recruiting new people.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Meanwhile, Alex has no accounting whatsoever for how the $170,000
> he
> >>>>>>> received was spent. He didn't even reveal it was all gone until
> half
> >>>>>>> a year after the fact.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If he wants to help train new teachers in Unity or lead some
> classes,
> >>>>>>> that's great. But as soon as he asks them to contribute to Code
> Hero,
> >>>>>>> that's when people need to politely and firmly tell him No.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Al
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 4:09 PM, jarrod hicks <hicksu at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I was not aware of troubles with the Code Hero project, that is a
> >>>>>>>> bummer.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As far as being a positive example, contributor, and someone who
> >>>>>>>> should have the nerve to be at Noisebridge. Alex was one of those
> >>>>>>>> who
> >>>>>>>> stepped up when my partner asked the Noisebridge community for
> help
> >>>>>>>> showing her physics students the wonders and possibilities of
> >>>>>>>> Noisebridge, and in turn the greater hacker/maker community. He
> >>>>>>>> worked
> >>>>>>>> with rotating groups of her students and within 20 - 30 minutes he
> >>>>>>>> had
> >>>>>>>> them making games and seeing the basic possibilities of
> programming
> >>>>>>>> that many of them were not aware of. Alex, and all those who
> >>>>>>>> helped,
> >>>>>>>> showed Noisebridge at its best that day, and my ongoing commitment
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> this space/community is in large part because of people like Alex.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Oren Beck
>
> 816.632.3695
>
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