[Noisebridge-discuss] Sleepers

Tue Jan 28 22:22:54 UTC 2014

This is precisely the policy gridlock that consensus puts Noisebridge in:
there's no way consensus can be reached to say "sleeping is banned" or
"sleeping is allowed". As I've said before, we've had incidents of people
shooting heroin in the bathroom, but we don't have a policy that says you
can't shoot heroin in the bathroom. As such, the issue never gets resolved
and conflict continues.

Curtis, sleepers who are kicked out are never confronted about it at a
meeting. They just come back to Noisebridge the next night to sleep.
Perhaps we should have these individual confrontations at meetings.

-Al

On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Gregory Dillon <gregorydillon at gmail.com>wrote:

> @Hannah   Thank you, for your insight into where the community stands.
>  polarized without a "bridge".  I will  withdraw the proposal
>
> But still, correct me if I'm wrong, there is also  no consensed policy
> against sleeping either   The idea was to begin defining a policy that had
> safeguards from day one.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm very much opposed to your proposal as it's currently written; it
>> reads as if you're saying that there should be alternatives to banning
>> people for sleeping, but as we don't currently have a policy of
>> auto-banning people for sleeping a specific policy of offering alternatives
>> is unnecessary and only serves to be confusing and take up meeting time.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Gregory Dillon <gregorydillon at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi List,
>>>
>>> Al, let me think about your advice.  I agree that my proposal is
>>> accurately described as vague.   But that it is purposeful vague because
>>> that reflects reality.   In life, there are some concepts that are vague
>>> but still express broad principles.  The community view on sleeping at
>>> Noisebridge is currently vague but I think there are some broad principles
>>> of agreement..
>>>
>>> I have tried to articulate what I believe is consensable:  that many
>>> agree sleeping at Noisebride is taking up too much energy at meetings, that
>>> sleeping at Noisebridge is harming the space, but that gray areas exist,
>>> that some "sanctioning" event should be triggered by sleeping at
>>> Noisebridge, but the actual "sanction" should depend on the circumstances.
>>>
>>> My consensus proposal says that there should be some "sanction" for
>>> sleeping at Noisebridge, but that they should be effected only after
>>> considering the full circumstance, and therefore the range of "sanctions"
>>> should be broad.    Maybe the sanction is only a verbal warning that people
>>> are going to be watching if your are sleeping too often.  Or on the other
>>> end, it looks like your are not hacking but are are setting up residency
>>> there, our lease doesn't allow that and that residency threatens the
>>> existence of Noisebridge, so a strict sanction is appropriate.
>>>
>>> Al, I'll consider your advice,  but I would not want  a specific
>>> actionable proposal that would  act as a "sentencing guidelines" based on
>>> 30 different sleeping scenarios.  I want to trust the wisdom of the group
>>> to implement an answer based on the broad principles that sleeping should
>>> have some response from the community, but the sanctions could vary widely.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey Greg, the consensus proposal seems really vague: I'm not sure what
>>>> the actual policy or guidelines it proposes are. Do you want to take that
>>>> off the consensus item list and instead have it as a discussion item at the
>>>> meeting? The consensus proposals are really for actionable and
>>>> clearly-worded policy, but it looks more like you'd like to have a
>>>> conversation on it to determine what the policy should be.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Gregory Dillon <
>>>> gregorydillon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Monad,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a consensus proposal<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items>up for consideration that asks for circumspection and "slack" for people
>>>>> found sleeping when it is due.   It is a purposefully a soft measure that I
>>>>> hope can get support from all ends of the spectrum on this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many members of the community will feel that my proposal does not go
>>>>> far enough to be a  solution on sleeping at Noisebridge, and there may be
>>>>>  laissez fairests who favor unrestrained sleep locations.   But I think
>>>>> that is its strength.   A workable compromise.    I ask you to consider it
>>>>> as a way to address the sleeping issue, while being caring and considerate
>>>>> that people are finding it hard to find a place to lay their head down to
>>>>> sleep.
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Paul Monad <immonad at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only tool we have at the moment is:  personally wake them, ask if
>>>>>> they are sponsored then ... , or asking them to leave and come to the next
>>>>>> meeting.   Jake pointed out certain individuals should be given slack for a
>>>>>> short time.  Circumspection and discretion is mandatory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They invariably say they were asleep for a very short time.  If left
>>>>>> alone, is soon back asleep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As many as possible should speak directly with the problem
>>>>>> individuals because this is a community of doers.  It shouldn't be the
>>>>>> efforts of the few. Perception is important.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone who wants to participate but have transportation problems
>>>>>> please contact me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
>
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