[Noisebridge-discuss] why would hackers come to noisebridge?

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Thu Mar 13 16:23:53 UTC 2014


Another interesting point is that there is a new feminist hackerspa ce in
San Francisco called double union.  They have a smaller space but yet are
not open 24/7 and I would bet that they have a different set of problems.
They also have more members than noisebridge I believe.  Why is that?   We
should have way more since we are a way bigger space but that is not the
case.
On Mar 13, 2014 9:15 AM, "Ronald Cotoni" <setient at gmail.com> wrote:

> That sound extremely reasonable but certain (now) Council Members blocked
> proposals for just that and then when we finally got that, it was changed
> weeks later.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Jessica Ross <jessica.r.ross at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Is there a reason why there's 24 hour access? It seems like you guys
>> can't staff it appropriately for that.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> TBQH part of a hacker space is trying new things.  All of the
>>> hackerspaces on the planet have different sets of issues and deal with them
>>> differently.  An approach in one place may not work very well elsewhere.
>>>  So I submit to you this is a different form of hacking.  Policy hacking.
>>>  Trying different methods until we find the one that fits for us.  I am not
>>> sure what is happening with Consensus but it would be nice if we had a
>>> board that got us things. By things, I mean making sure the bathrooms were
>>> clean either by doocracy or by paying someone to do it.  Making sure the
>>> sprinkler system works.  Making sure we have fire extinguishers.   Making
>>> sure people are respecting the space.  Usually this could be done by
>>> doocracy but with people like you leaving Mark, that is a pipe dream.   And
>>> for noisebridge, which is 24/7 (sudroom which is not) there are different
>>> issues that you don't have to deal with.  You may or may not find yourself
>>> in the exact same situation with a bigger space.   I would strongly suggest
>>> reading over the past few years of meeting notes and seeing if you see any
>>> similarities between sudoroom and noisebridge since sudoroom is mildly
>>> based on noisebridge.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Torrie Fischer <
>>> tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, March 13, 2014 07:19:04 Marc Juul wrote:
>>>> > On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>> > > well, you're doing more to fix the infrastructure than I have
>>>> lately, but
>>>> > > that is not the kind of problems i'm talking about.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > my complaint is that the culture of noisebridge has become so
>>>> > > uninteresting
>>>> > > and unrelated to hacking that it is bordering on irrelavent. The
>>>> fact that
>>>> > > you are volunteering your time to maintain the internet at a
>>>> homeless
>>>> > > shelter is quaint, but it doesn't change the fact that most hackers
>>>> don't
>>>> > > want to go there anymore.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > there are two categories of reasons why a hacker would want to go to
>>>> > > noisebridge:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 1> other hackers are there, and people they can relate to and share
>>>> > > interesting conversation with, or just be around while working on
>>>> projects
>>>> > > of their own.  People are there experimenting on things, hardware
>>>> software
>>>> > > and other, and one might learn something or teach something or make
>>>> new
>>>> > > friends with similar interests.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > 2> there is a "safe space" with technical infrastructure.  This
>>>> means that
>>>> > > people who refuse to be HIGHLY accountable for problematic behavior
>>>> are
>>>> > > simply not permitted to be present (a much higher standard than we
>>>> have
>>>> > > now).  Oh and lets not forget at least one usable bathroom with a
>>>> decent
>>>> > > toilet seat and toilet paper.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This also means that the technical infrastructure is in place and
>>>> usable.
>>>> > > For software people this means the internet works and there are
>>>> outlets,
>>>> > > clean places to sit (with decent posture, not fall-in couches) and
>>>> tables
>>>> > > for laptops and room to work with others.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > For hardware this means that tools are more than just the bottom of
>>>> the
>>>> > > barrel (try finding a pair of scissors or a phillips screwdriver)
>>>> and that
>>>> > > there are actually nice things (a soldering iron with a temperature
>>>> > > control
>>>> > > instead of $2 china disposable irons), AND more advanced tools are
>>>> > > available such as microcontroller programmers, blank
>>>> microcontrollers,
>>>> > > and other electronic hardware for raw material.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Noisebridge used to have a great collection of microcontrollers and
>>>> > > programmers and breadboards and jumper wires and advanced electronic
>>>> > > tools,
>>>> > > but all of that stuff was REPEATEDLY taken down from the top shelf
>>>> and
>>>> > > scattered into the e-waste piles, and then thrown away.  Yes, our
>>>> > > microcontroller and programmer collection has made its way to the
>>>> trash.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > categories 1 and 2 are related;  if a hackerspace has one without
>>>> the
>>>> > > other, hackers still may not decide to go.  Certainly I think both
>>>> are
>>>> > > equally important.  I also feel that at this time, and for too long,
>>>> > > noisebridge has not had either.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > P.S. please notice that ONE OF THE THINGS YOU CAN DO TO HELP IS TO
>>>> GO TO
>>>> > > NOISEBRIDGE MORE OFTEN.
>>>> >
>>>> > Since reading the policy that visitors to noisebridge are required to
>>>> > have a member vouch for them at all times, I no longer feel welcome at
>>>> > noisebridge. I know that several others feel the same way.
>>>> >
>>>> > I remember Jake's original suggestion related to this. The idea was
>>>> > that anyone asking a visitor to leave would first have to ask if any
>>>> > member is willing to vouch for the visitor to stay, and only if no-one
>>>> > vouches can the non-member be asked to leave. That is reasonable.
>>>> > Putting the responsibility on the visitor of having a member pre-vouch
>>>> > for them at all times is both unwelcoming and unreasonable.
>>>> >
>>>> > Now, I'm seeing one of the board members implying that the board will
>>>> > no longer be passive, which I take it to mean that noisebridge is no
>>>> > longer ruled by consensus.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just an associate member of noisebridge on the other side of the US
>>>> with
>>>> no real influence, or even a desire to get involved, so here is my
>>>> $0.02 based
>>>> on my previous position of being an officer of SYNHAK, and our
>>>> terrifyingly
>>>> heavy-handed and pre-emptive board that was elected a few weeks ago.
>>>>
>>>> I feel that it is possible and somewhat important for the management of
>>>> a
>>>> hackerspace to be active while still respecting the wishes of the
>>>> membership.
>>>> The board and officers should still be held responsible to the
>>>> membership by
>>>> the community. Noisebridge bylaws permit the removal of the board,
>>>> should it
>>>> come to that:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/bylaws#c._Removal_of_Directors
>>>>
>>>> It is never a good idea for the board to get to such a point that
>>>> demands for
>>>> resignation or removal start showing up (see synhak's discuss@ for many
>>>> tears), so I imagine that the consensus process would still be
>>>> respected.
>>>>
>>>> SYNHAK is experimenting with a few procedural changes with our
>>>> governance
>>>> structure in the next few weeks in an attempt to curb the decision
>>>> making
>>>> abilities of the board and officers. First, an amendment to our bylaws
>>>> that
>>>> essentially states that the membership runs the space:
>>>>
>>>> "The powers not delegated to the Officers of SYNHAK by these Bylaws, nor
>>>> prohibited to the members through The Board or these Bylaws are
>>>> reserved to
>>>> the Membership."
>>>>
>>>> Sounds a bit 10th amendment-ish, yeah. It has no real effect on the
>>>> corporation other than to explicitly state that the membership is in
>>>> charge.
>>>> The Board still legally retains absolute power and can do things like
>>>> set a
>>>> corporate alcohol and drug policy, approve a new lease, strip
>>>> membership from
>>>> individuals, pass a bylaw amendment that nulls this, etc. It does,
>>>> however,
>>>> give the membership some control over what the management does.
>>>>
>>>> The second component of this is an upcoming modification to our
>>>> consensus
>>>> process which is roughly based off of Noisebridge's. It adds three
>>>> constraints
>>>> on blocking consensus: One person may block consensus for no longer
>>>> than 6
>>>> weeks, an indefinite block can only happen with the support of a total
>>>> of
>>>> three members, and the reason for a block must be clearly and explicitly
>>>> written in the meeting minutes.
>>>>
>>>> Nobody is required to approve of the reason for a block, but this
>>>> prevents a
>>>> single person from stopping the entire process without having to put the
>>>> effort in to convince others why their position is valid. While a
>>>> proposal is
>>>> under a block, the community is encouraged to figure out the best way
>>>> to reach
>>>> consensus on the issue.
>>>>
>>>> If you're worried about consensus being steamrolled by the board,
>>>> perhaps
>>>> those concerns are best addressed by asking the board to explain how
>>>> they feel
>>>> Noisebridge's governance process fits in with their plans. Reaching
>>>> consensus
>>>> about respecting consensus, if you will.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > It makes me both sad and angry that noisebridge has become a place
>>>> > where hackers don't feel welcome.
>>>> >
>>>> > If anyone wants to help build a hackerspace similar to what
>>>> > noisebridge used to be, I invite you all too come join sudo room in
>>>> > oakland as we prepare to move to a much bigger space (a space very
>>>> > similar to noisebridge's current space!). We have open meetings every
>>>> > Wednesday at 7 pm at 22nd and Broadway, located just two blocks from
>>>> > 19th street BART.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>> Systems Engineer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jessica R. Ross
>> jessica.r.ross at gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ronald Cotoni
> Systems Engineer
>
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