[Noisebridge-discuss] why would hackers come to noisebridge?

John Ellis neurofog at gmail.com
Fri Mar 14 07:05:55 UTC 2014


Considering he was the first to get formally banned from Noisebridge. It
didn't take long for a group of us to decide he wasn't welcome in the
space, and we'd ask him to leave if we saw him. The actual consensus came
about a week or two after that.

How long did he last at Hacker Dojo?

-John


On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Dan Cote <terminationshok at gmail.com>wrote:

> I like how "time taken to ban Patrick Keyes" has become a metric for
> hackerspace administrative efficiency.
>
> Does Hacker Dojo ban many people?
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Dean Mao <dean.mao at hackerdojo.com> wrote:
>
>> The Hacker Dojo is arguably younger than noisebridge and probably less
>> "membership-oriented" compared to noisebridge, but our membership has
>> skyrocketed to the point where it's hard to find an empty chair during
>> normal business hours.  We still have the occasional sleeper at night, but
>> because we are so fast at banning people, that problem usually doesn't
>> persist.  When we banned patrick keyes, it only required a meeting of 3-4
>> people and it was a done deal.  You guys should definitely reconsider how
>> you ban people.  We didn't have to ask all of our directors for ban
>> approval to make it happen.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hep, your description of Noisebridge is spot on.
>>>
>>> Here's the difference that I think an active board can make: Noisebridge
>>> has taken to the extreme a philosophy that we shouldn't ban people or that
>>> we should give bad behavior effectively unlimited second chances. (The
>>> first person we banned was Patrick Keyes for sexually harassing multiple
>>> women, and even then it was pulling teeth to get him banned and not just
>>> suspended.) Consensus is what affords this: a tiny minority can block,
>>> delay, and in general abuse process to wear out their opponents.
>>>
>>> A board does not have to endlessly talk about policy and makes decisions
>>> by majority vote: a board can set policy and *gasp* make decisions. This
>>> includes suspending and banning people for bad behavior.
>>>
>>> (Obligatory footnote about abuse of power, "define bad behavior",
>>> tyranny of the majority, etc.)
>>>
>>> Consensus is what holds Noisebridge hostage: a 1% can have more power
>>> just because they have more volume, and meanwhile we can't get many new
>>> members because we are so afraid of extending this power to new people.
>>>
>>> -Al
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am with what hep said.  I am also with Naomi.  This is a hackerspace.
>>>>  Lets hack the system and figure out how to solve problems.  I am also with
>>>> Al that I feel sad that UU had to even exist because noisebridge was not
>>>> safe enough or good enough.  I also understand that some people just like
>>>> working with other females and don't even want to bother at this stage of
>>>> their lives.  I just feel it was mostly a response to Noisebridge not being
>>>> safe and not the latter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am openly biased towards anarchism and lack of top-down control.
>>>>> But we can't keep shouting down the idea of "oversight" to address
>>>>> problems that Noisebridge has had for YEEAAARRRSSS when we've
>>>>> certainly given the Noisebridge traditional methods that long to fix
>>>>> things.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record, I don't agree with the idea of direct
>>>>> people-management or in changing the way we arrive at decisions at
>>>>> Noisebridge.  My idea of a positive change would be to have the board
>>>>> managing facilities and facilitating participation -- e.g. forming
>>>>> working groups.  I believe these improvements will make a lot of the
>>>>> other crap die down naturally.
>>>>>
>>>>> And as it turns out, that's what we're going to do first.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:46 AM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>>>>> > And that would be different from what noisebridge has had in the
>>>>> last 5yr
>>>>> > how? as it stands, many women do not feel safe at noisebridge
>>>>> because of
>>>>> > sexual assault and the past somewhat failure to deal with it in a
>>>>> manner
>>>>> > where women felt safe and listened to at nb. many valuable
>>>>> contributing
>>>>> > people have left nb because of its failure to address major
>>>>> infrastructure
>>>>> > problems. if having a more active board helps to stop sexual abuse
>>>>> and makes
>>>>> > the culture more welcoming to those who would positively contribute,
>>>>> then i
>>>>> > am 100% down with active management. i would like noisebridge to be
>>>>> > somewhere i can bring friends to interest them in hacking, bring my
>>>>> > childrens' school championship robotics team to inspire them to the
>>>>> next
>>>>> > victory, not a place where i am fearful to go on my own because
>>>>> there are no
>>>>> > protections or infrastructure to ensure basic safety.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -hep
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Torrie Fischer <
>>>>> tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think it is important to note that in the context of a
>>>>> hackerspace,
>>>>> >> there is
>>>>> >> a difference between managing the infrastructure and managing the
>>>>> people
>>>>> >> who
>>>>> >> hack on the infrastructure.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> From experience, just saying "active management" easily leads to
>>>>> bad times
>>>>> >> and, uh, rather verbose mailing list threads.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > hep
>>>>> > hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>>>>> >     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>
>>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>>
>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>>>> Systems Engineer
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dean Mao
>> dean.mao at hackerdojo.com
>> Come visit us, we love new people!
>> www.hackerdojo.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
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