[Noisebridge-discuss] why would hackers come to noisebridge?

Naomi Most pnaomi at gmail.com
Fri Mar 14 17:21:29 UTC 2014 

Heh, that would be a fun tool to have, wouldn't it?

We'd better start gathering anecdata from other hackerspaces!


On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com> wrote:
> HAhahahhahah.  Well volunteered, Naomi!  <3
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That /is/ pretty amazing.
>>
>> I hope someone comes up with a theory-based way to calculate this metric.
>>
>> Like, "based on $HACKERSPACE's gender diversity index, choice of
>> governance model, percentage participation by membership, and
>> percentage of activity on the mailing list, $HACKERSPACE has an
>> expected Time To Ban Patrick Keys of X weeks, 2 days, and 3 hours."
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Hannah Grimm <dharlette at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I want you all to know that the concept of "Time taken to ban Patrick
>> > Keys"
>> > as a hackerspace-efficiency metric has completely made my day.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:05 AM, John Ellis <neurofog at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Considering he was the first to get formally banned from Noisebridge.
>> >> It
>> >> didn't take long for a group of us to decide he wasn't welcome in the
>> >> space,
>> >> and we'd ask him to leave if we saw him. The actual consensus came
>> >> about a
>> >> week or two after that.
>> >>
>> >> How long did he last at Hacker Dojo?
>> >>
>> >> -John
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Dan Cote <terminationshok at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I like how "time taken to ban Patrick Keyes" has become a metric for
>> >>> hackerspace administrative efficiency.
>> >>>
>> >>> Does Hacker Dojo ban many people?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Dean Mao <dean.mao at hackerdojo.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The Hacker Dojo is arguably younger than noisebridge and probably
>> >>>> less
>> >>>> "membership-oriented" compared to noisebridge, but our membership has
>> >>>> skyrocketed to the point where it's hard to find an empty chair
>> >>>> during
>> >>>> normal business hours.  We still have the occasional sleeper at
>> >>>> night, but
>> >>>> because we are so fast at banning people, that problem usually
>> >>>> doesn't
>> >>>> persist.  When we banned patrick keyes, it only required a meeting of
>> >>>> 3-4
>> >>>> people and it was a done deal.  You guys should definitely reconsider
>> >>>> how
>> >>>> you ban people.  We didn't have to ask all of our directors for ban
>> >>>> approval
>> >>>> to make it happen.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Al Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hep, your description of Noisebridge is spot on.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Here's the difference that I think an active board can make:
>> >>>>> Noisebridge has taken to the extreme a philosophy that we shouldn't
>> >>>>> ban
>> >>>>> people or that we should give bad behavior effectively unlimited
>> >>>>> second
>> >>>>> chances. (The first person we banned was Patrick Keyes for sexually
>> >>>>> harassing multiple women, and even then it was pulling teeth to get
>> >>>>> him
>> >>>>> banned and not just suspended.) Consensus is what affords this: a
>> >>>>> tiny
>> >>>>> minority can block, delay, and in general abuse process to wear out
>> >>>>> their
>> >>>>> opponents.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A board does not have to endlessly talk about policy and makes
>> >>>>> decisions by majority vote: a board can set policy and *gasp* make
>> >>>>> decisions. This includes suspending and banning people for bad
>> >>>>> behavior.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> (Obligatory footnote about abuse of power, "define bad behavior",
>> >>>>> tyranny of the majority, etc.)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Consensus is what holds Noisebridge hostage: a 1% can have more
>> >>>>> power
>> >>>>> just because they have more volume, and meanwhile we can't get many
>> >>>>> new
>> >>>>> members because we are so afraid of extending this power to new
>> >>>>> people.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -Al
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Ronald Cotoni <setient at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am with what hep said.  I am also with Naomi.  This is a
>> >>>>>> hackerspace.  Lets hack the system and figure out how to solve
>> >>>>>> problems.  I
>> >>>>>> am also with Al that I feel sad that UU had to even exist because
>> >>>>>> noisebridge was not safe enough or good enough.  I also understand
>> >>>>>> that some
>> >>>>>> people just like working with other females and don't even want to
>> >>>>>> bother at
>> >>>>>> this stage of their lives.  I just feel it was mostly a response to
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge not being safe and not the latter.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I am openly biased towards anarchism and lack of top-down control.
>> >>>>>>> But we can't keep shouting down the idea of "oversight" to address
>> >>>>>>> problems that Noisebridge has had for YEEAAARRRSSS when we've
>> >>>>>>> certainly given the Noisebridge traditional methods that long to
>> >>>>>>> fix
>> >>>>>>> things.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> For the record, I don't agree with the idea of direct
>> >>>>>>> people-management or in changing the way we arrive at decisions at
>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge.  My idea of a positive change would be to have the
>> >>>>>>> board
>> >>>>>>> managing facilities and facilitating participation -- e.g. forming
>> >>>>>>> working groups.  I believe these improvements will make a lot of
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>> other crap die down naturally.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> And as it turns out, that's what we're going to do first.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:46 AM, hep <dis at gruntle.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>> > And that would be different from what noisebridge has had in the
>> >>>>>>> > last 5yr
>> >>>>>>> > how? as it stands, many women do not feel safe at noisebridge
>> >>>>>>> > because of
>> >>>>>>> > sexual assault and the past somewhat failure to deal with it in
>> >>>>>>> > a
>> >>>>>>> > manner
>> >>>>>>> > where women felt safe and listened to at nb. many valuable
>> >>>>>>> > contributing
>> >>>>>>> > people have left nb because of its failure to address major
>> >>>>>>> > infrastructure
>> >>>>>>> > problems. if having a more active board helps to stop sexual
>> >>>>>>> > abuse
>> >>>>>>> > and makes
>> >>>>>>> > the culture more welcoming to those who would positively
>> >>>>>>> > contribute, then i
>> >>>>>>> > am 100% down with active management. i would like noisebridge to
>> >>>>>>> > be
>> >>>>>>> > somewhere i can bring friends to interest them in hacking, bring
>> >>>>>>> > my
>> >>>>>>> > childrens' school championship robotics team to inspire them to
>> >>>>>>> > the
>> >>>>>>> > next
>> >>>>>>> > victory, not a place where i am fearful to go on my own because
>> >>>>>>> > there are no
>> >>>>>>> > protections or infrastructure to ensure basic safety.
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > -hep
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Torrie Fischer
>> >>>>>>> > <tdfischer at hackerbots.net>
>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>> >>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>> >> I think it is important to note that in the context of a
>> >>>>>>> >> hackerspace,
>> >>>>>>> >> there is
>> >>>>>>> >> a difference between managing the infrastructure and managing
>> >>>>>>> >> the
>> >>>>>>> >> people
>> >>>>>>> >> who
>> >>>>>>> >> hack on the infrastructure.
>> >>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>> >> From experience, just saying "active management" easily leads
>> >>>>>>> >> to
>> >>>>>>> >> bad times
>> >>>>>>> >> and, uh, rather verbose mailing list threads.
>> >>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>> > --
>> >>>>>>> > hep
>> >>>>>>> > hepic photography || www.hepic.net
>> >>>>>>> >     dis at gruntle.org || 415 867 9472
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>> >>>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> >>>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> skype: nthmost
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Ronald Cotoni
>> >>>>>> Systems Engineer
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Dean Mao
>> >>>> dean.mao at hackerdojo.com
>> >>>> Come visit us, we love new people!
>> >>>> www.hackerdojo.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
>



-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost

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