[Noisebridge-discuss] why would hackers come to noisebridge?

Tue Mar 18 18:55:22 UTC 2014

Alright, let's just ignore everything you said about women.  Let's just
ignore it completely

That''s easy considering I was never talking about women but Feminism and
the PC culture at NB.  But go ahead and imply that not agreeing with the
theories behind Femenism makes me a mysoginist.  Implied ad homonym attacks
are super effective at NB. I am curious as to what I said that you find so
offense to women en mass as to not warrant a comment or is this more of the
same white knight grandstanding.

I really think Mala said it best,...Followed by Mala ragequitting.  He
didn't quit just because he heard some rumors of "what actually goes on in
the space" or got taken in by "the narrative."  It's just not a credible
argument.

Did you even see the things he cited? He specifically mentioned  Robby (who
once again got tattooed against his will, says he is not racist, was never
observed acting racist towards anyone at noisebridge and tried to have the
tats  removed twice,  only to be ganged up on again by Noisebridge for not
coloring his head with a sharpie and not kowtowing when people were
assholes towards him)  So obviously he was on top of the situation there
and not falling into a group think narrative set forth by Liz Henry in an
understandable but still thoughtless knee jerk reaction.   He also
mentioned the Andrew situation. The one where both parties agreed to the
facts and the accuser was upset by how far Noisebridge took it.  I guess
you will find it extra scarey to know that I am not alone in thinking that
Andrew was treated unfairly.  I am just the only one who doesn't give a
fuck about the dumb ass labels that get applied to people at noisebridge
for dissent.   This is very much someone quitting because of the narrative
and not how Noisebridge actually is. You are proving my point for me.
Mala was not involved in either of those incidents as a moderator or
witness so by DEFINITION had to be acting on others narratives of the
situations he described as his reason for quitting.

Also you seem to think that just because a person quit and gave a reason
that the reason must be valid.  It isn't but lets assume it is for a
moment.  Mik left because of the way the space treated Andrew, Robby, and
the general malaise of groupthink (as well as our cliquish membership
process).  So obviously by your logic groupthink is an issue here and needs
to be dealt with because it is driving people away. I'm glad you agree.

Oogles...  Yeah lets create new derogatory terms for people who dont know
as much about hacking as us.  That will get people here.   We are an
education non profit.  Who do we teach if everyone is an expert hacker
already?

before a guy dressed in nothing but surgical scrubs showed up and started
sniffing people and babbling about the four corners of the universe, and
that was in 2011.
 That was before my time so I was not aware of it but sounds like a
mentally ill person wandered out of the hospital and into noisebridge. If
he had wandered into any other place, like say the public library would you
be argueing it as proof that libriaries are sketchy and unsafe?

There's been people with stolen credit cards offering to buy pizza for
everyone in the space.
And noisebridge culture contributed to this how exactly?

Rats are a problem. Especially when no one can agree to just kill them.

Sleepers are a part of living in a poor part of town  There are homeless
people  Sometimes they try to sneak residence at noisebridge.  This is
inconvenient and a problem but not unsafe. And to imply otherwise is kinda
bigoted.

Rayc slept on top of the elevator.  There is no excuse.  I don't know what
the fuck was going through his head.  I personally proposed that he be
asked to leave for at least 6 months for that.

Methheads
I have seen this accusation thrown around a noisebridge a lot but have yet
to hear of or see any proof whatsoever.  Methinks this is just an insult
that gets thrown at homeless people who dare step foot in noisebridge.
 Maybe I am wrong.  Show me proof or people who actually saw someone doing
meth at noisebridge.  I dont think you can.

So you made a couple of good points about rats and sleepers but these are
not problems that no other hackerspace has. Noisebridge is not the
exception here.

You never really addressed my issues with the PC crowd not really
mitigating any of these problems but just making new problems by acting
like the thought police.  The solution to these problems is not to yell at
people for thinking differently. It's to deal with the problems directly.

How does yelling at Johnny Radio over his word choices prevent any of these
problems again?  How does any of the PC browbeating address any of these
issues?  If we only used more politically correct terminology at NB the
rats and sleepers will go away an no one undesirable will ever darken our
door.

Everyone thinks they are right about everything and by extension no one is.

On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:25 AM, Will Sargent <will.sargent at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> If how you categorize the state of Noisebrridge is true then it is a
>> problem. And it needs to be dealt with. By getting rid of the people doing
>> it. No one should be harassed while they are here.  But I have a feeling
>> that the numbers have been run through the grapevine and exaggerated.  I
>> don't see Noisebridge as a place where people fear for their lives and
>> bodily integrity.  That is so far away from what actually goes on in the
>> space.  Furthermore that narrative keeps people away from the space.  It is
>> damaging and needs to stop.  Don't stretch the truth and paint a false
>> picture of danger, harassment, and misogyny to would be Noisebridgers.
>>  It's just not the case.
>>
>
> Alright, let's just ignore everything you said about women.  Let's just
> ignore it completely, and focus on the idea that you think Noisebridge is a
> safe place.  For ANYONE.
>
> I really think Mala said it best, over eight(!) months ago:
>
> I think pretty much that Noisebridge would die tomorrow if we to take the
> extreme action of telling people who are all about the injecting, or the
> unzipping, or the nazi tattooing,  and asked them never to come back. It's
> almost certain to me that people to inject or unzip or white power
> tattoo-wield, are the lifeblood of any hackerspace.
>
> What I mean to say here is: WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT THE LIVING, FUCKING FUCK
> FUCK THE FUCK?
>
> Are you people so *INSANE* that you think that ANY OF THIS is acceptable
> behaviour ANYWHERE?
>
> Followed by Mala ragequitting.  He didn't quit just because he heard some
> rumors of "what actually goes on in the space" or got taken in by "the
> narrative."  It's just not a credible argument.
>
> Noisebridge is and has been, even before the Oogles found it, best
> described as "sketchy as fuck" on a good day.  It only took me two goes at
> the roulette wheel that is an NB visit before a guy dressed in nothing but
> surgical scrubs showed up and started sniffing people and babbling about
> the four corners of the universe, and that was in 2011.  There's been
> people with stolen credit cards offering to buy pizza for everyone in the
> space.  There's been rats.  Methheads.  There's been people sleeping on the
> elevator, even getting stuck in the walls.  This isn't normal or safe
> behavior, and it's gone on for years, without end.  The fact that you seem
> to think that this is about "kicking out the people doing it" misses the
> point that there is and has been an endless supply of "people doing it" and
> as soon as you kick some old ones out, you're not solving the problem --
> you're just making room for some new ones to come in.
>
> You don't need to point to any one particular group of people and say that
> because they feel bad, the rest of Noisebridge has to be dragged through
> unnecessary ritual of penance.  Noisebridge looks sketchy as fuck to any
> random person coming off the street, and you don't need to be a woman, a
> child, a midget or a human centipede to notice that and not want to be
> there.
>
> Will.
>

-- 
www.linkreincarnate.com
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