[Noisebridge-discuss] Problem: people seeing NB as a backup shelter

Sun May 11 06:23:41 UTC 2014

It doesn't.  In fact, none of this entire thread solves the Problem
that prompted it.

--Naomi

On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 11:20 PM, girlgeek <girlgeek at wt.net> wrote:
> OK, there's that hypothetical undesirable guy sleeping in the library again.
> He got in because his undesirable friend let him in again.  That one got in
> because someone who didn't know him let him in.  etc, etc.  How is
> technology going to cure this very common scenario?
> -Claudia
>
>
>
> On 5/10/2014 3:30 AM, Henner Zeller wrote:
>
> I would like to help researching RFID readers and how to get a  bunch of
> cards and help make this happen. RFID is not absolutely secure, but this is
> not what we have to worry about here (in fact, if someone can hack themself
> in with a copy, they are at the right place).
>
> Starting with the top door being opened by RFID is a good first step. I
> still would  like to put an RFID reader downstairs as well because
> remembering my 7-digit code always is, uhm, troublesome for me. So it would
> just basically an addition/replacement for the keypad downstairs (which
> doesn't change the situation with other tenants that have a key, I suppose).
>
> I might come to NB tomorrow, is anyone there who wants to discuss this, and
> work on it ? Let Do this.
> I am happy to help purchase equipement if we need that (I know there were
> already experiments with RFID readers before ? What happened to that ?).
> Getting basic physical access installed is IMHO the most important thing to
> make NB functioning again.
>
> (I am really looking forward to have only people there who should be there.
> One of my reasons to only really rarely come to Noisebridge is, because I
> know that I can't leave stuff there I want to work on, so why should I do it
> there ?)
>
>
>
> On 9 May 2014 17:28, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm just reiterating my own stances said elsewhere.
>>
>> Basically, I'm a proponent of Approach #3.
>>
>> Important points:
>>
>> * the front door key is not a form of security; it's a meme promoting
>> Noisebridge.
>>
>> * changing the way the front door operates requires the use of social
>> capital w/ the landlord and tenants.  Right now the landlord is
>> disturbed by the Electrical Situation -- not a good time to bother him
>> about other things.
>>
>> * installing RFID at the top door seems like the smartest addition of
>> security in terms of workingness (keyfobs are less easily duplicable
>> than key codes and just as revokable) and in terms of the work
>> involved (not removing anything from the front door, just installing
>> something new).
>>
>> * yes, this is still basically security theater -- unless we also
>> restrict access via the elevator.
>>
>> --Naomi
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > We have been discussing this for a few hours on Slack and #noisebridge
>> > and
>> > have come up with a few solutions. I thought I'd share a few ideas that
>> > have
>> > been thrown around so far.
>> >
>> > Here's the current system, for those watching from home. At all hours of
>> > the
>> > day:
>> > - Someone can use a key to get into the building and space.
>> > - Someone can use a keycode to get into the building and space.
>> > - Someone can buzz the intercom and be allowed in by someone inside who
>> > has
>> > a keycode. (or they can walk downstairs)
>> >
>> > And now, for some new ideas...
>> >
>> > Idea #1: Move the keypad from the gate to the door. Keypad only active
>> > during newly instilled associate/regular members hours. Physical key, or
>> > someone buzzing you in, required to enter the building.
>> > Benefits:
>> > - Robotically enforced "members-only" hours, instead of human-enforced
>> > like
>> > in the past
>> > - Semblance of 2-factor auth, if you ignore the ubiquity of keys and
>> > keycodes
>> >
>> > Idea #2: idea #1, plus replacing gate lock with RFID sensor.
>> > Additional benefits:
>> > - RFID fob can be revoked if shared, while key cannot (or it's much
>> > harder
>> > to do so).
>> >
>> > Idea #3: keep lock/keypad as-is, install members-hours-only RFID sensor
>> > at
>> > door.
>> > Additional benefits:
>> > - No need to change existing setup.
>> > - RFID sensor is less likely to be tampered with.
>> >
>> > In all three cases, it will be less easy (but nothing is impossible) for
>> > a
>> > random person looking for a way to abuse the space to find their way
>> > inside.
>> > Of course, much like how things are now, there's a significant amount of
>> > security theater that goes into these "solutions." There is no silver
>> > bullet.
>> > - In all forms, someone can still shadow someone else being let in.
>> > - With idea #2, replacing the lock with an RFID sensor could
>> > inconvenience
>> > other tenants, and RFID sensor could be subject to on-the-street
>> > vandalism.
>> > - In the past, people have complained about their access/whereabouts
>> > being
>> > tracked by being tied to an RFID fob.
>> > - Anyone could use the elevator to get past any form of authentication
>> > at
>> > the door.
>> > -- The elevator is either off-limits, cost-prohibitive, or both to add
>> > an
>> > additional keypad or sensor to.
>> >
>> > Either way, this is what we've been discussing. If you didn't read the
>> > previous paragraph, I said that this is all ultimately in the name of
>> > security theater. But I think they're all improvements on what we have
>> > now.
>> >
>> > If you're interested in discussing these (beyond the discussions we've
>> > already been having on this list, on Slack, on Freenode, and now on this
>> > Etherpad I made the mistake of creating), please consider coming to a
>> > meeting of the Security Working Group. I'll defer to Naomi or someone in
>> > #security-wg on Slack for details about when that will happen.
>> >
>> > If you haven't read the antepenultimate paragraph or the one prior to
>> > it,
>> > this is all in the name of security theater. Please do not complain
>> > about
>> > holes in any of these systems that already exist within our current one.
>> > Thanks again!
>> >
>> > Jeffrey
>> >
>> > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ya gotta love the "Let's somebody else do it." Classic.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This thread is taking a worrying turn toward "wishful thinking" and
>> >> away
>> >> from "doing".
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Let's do that.  Who's around who likes installing keypads?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
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-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost