[Noisebridge-discuss] why i am complaining

Thu May 8 19:17:00 UTC 2014

Thanks, Jake, that was helpful.

It should be known that Tom has been barred from coming to Noisebridge
until he can be present at a meeting to discuss a proposal to revoke
his Membership.

Chief among the grievances of the community about Tom is his pattern
of abuse of Consensus.

--Naomi

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> the reason that you hear me complain, or johny complain, or other people
> complain without doing anything is this:
>
> no one person is capable of making the broad and systematic changes to
> noisebridge that are necessary to turn it around in the other direction.
>
> so when people enumerate problems to the list, the implication should be
> that they are seeking cooperation to make large changes.
>
> my experience with noisebridge is that when i do that, people take turns
> writing snarky "responses" to my complaints and don't address the problems
> at all.  Or they minimize the problem while boasting about their special way
> of being unaffected by them.  In short, people do the opposite of offering
> their support in making requested improvements.
>
> For a while i was coming to meetings and trying to introduce carefully
> crafted changes to noisebridge that I thought would improve things.  I
> introduced associate membership so that we could discern between non-Members
> who wanted to be part of nb and non-Members who just wanted to take
> advantage of a place without rules or boundaries.
>
> At some point one of my suggestions got implemented differently than I had
> envisioned, since I hadn't been at the meeting and honestly didn't expect it
> to get screwed up the way it did, but it did.
>
> So I wrote a proposal to repair the wording to the "noisebridge is only for
> members and associate members" thing and sent it to the list repeatedly over
> many weeks, asking for concerns or suggestions from everyone.  No one had
> any problems with it, which was unsurprising because it was a carefully
> written proposal with nothing contraversial in it.
>
> At the meeting, Tom blocked it.  I asked why and he refused to engage in
> discussions.  I asked him to meet with me at the time and place of his
> choosing to discuss his blocking and he stalled and ignored my emails.
>
> Eventually I wrote a complaint to the list.  The flood of abusive responses
> to my complaint was the only result, with the exception of a couple of
> threads by good people pointing out "actually, blocking a consensus item
> DOES deserve explanation... what kind of process are you people running over
> there?"
>
> You should be glad that people are "complaining-without-doing" when problems
> are too big to solve alone, because the alternative is giving up.
>
> -jake
>
> On Thu, 8 May 2014, Naomi Most wrote:
>
>> I admit to being fairly annoyed at Johny's post (and yours, a little).
>> Part of that comes from having taken too much modafinil this morning.
>>
>> The reason I am annoyed is that there's a pattern of
>> complaining-without-doing that I would like to break.
>>
>> Jake, I know you have been frustrated in the past.  Positive changes
>> are occurring in the Noisebridge culture that might enable you be
>> effective in improving the space, should you feel you would like to
>> participate.
>>
>> --Naomi
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> sorry, i didn't notice that you were opening other threads and thought
>>> that
>>> this was all you had to say about johny's complaints.
>>>
>>> i still feel that there needs to be much better treatment of people
>>> enumerating problems than there is, including your reception of johny's
>>> post.  Being supportive of one another when we are trying to make
>>> improvements is essential.  The alternative, what is happening, is that
>>> people don't want to help because they just get yelled at.
>>>
>>>
>>> -jake
>>>
>>> On Thu, 8 May 2014, Naomi Most wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, I commented that the majority of his grievances came down to his
>>>> personal opinions of a handful of people.
>>>>
>>>> I have now devoted several new email threads TO Johny's complaints, in
>>>> what I hope is a very constructive manner.  I'd say that's the polar
>>>> opposite of dismissing someone's concerns irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Naomi,
>>>>>
>>>>> when I read Johny's post I was glad that someone else was noticing
>>>>> things
>>>>> that I consider problems.  Yes some of the things on the list might
>>>>> seem
>>>>> less important than others, depending on who is reading them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that when a person presents a list of complaints like this,
>>>>> rather
>>>>> than telling the person that their grievances are invalid because you
>>>>> don't
>>>>> agree with some of them, we should try to talk about the problems we
>>>>> can
>>>>> agree on.
>>>>>
>>>>> The main reason I can't continue trying to help noisebridge is because
>>>>> when
>>>>> I complained about things, i was attacked and my complaints mocked.
>>>>>
>>>>> you just told johny his list of concerns was irrelavent, in one
>>>>> sentence.
>>>>>
>>>>> -jake
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 8 May 2014, Naomi Most wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Johny,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The majority of those bulletpoints are your personal opinions about
>>>>>> other people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Naomi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Johny Radio <johnyradio at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>>>> From: "Naomi Most" <pnaomi at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am asking because I want to see if/how Jake's perspective has
>>>>>>>> changed,
>>>>>>>> and whether he's aware of what's already changed in a direction that
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> might like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Naomi, i'd sure like to know what's changed for the better:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Tonight i went to NB to look for some mosfets. There were piles upon
>>>>>>> piles
>>>>>>> of garbage mixed with useful parts all over the floor, worst i've
>>>>>>> ever
>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>> it (some dedicated Members cleaned and organized not long ago-- all
>>>>>>> gone
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> crap).
>>>>>>> -A non-member has, for a couple weeks or longer, been systematically
>>>>>>> digging
>>>>>>> through EVERYTHING in the Member stacks, taking what he wants, and
>>>>>>> leaving
>>>>>>> the rest all over the floor of the member stacks. It's now a complete
>>>>>>> disaster in there.
>>>>>>> -All the component storage cleanup and organizing i did over several
>>>>>>> weeks
>>>>>>> has also gone to crap. Useful stuff mixed with random junk all over
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> floor, parts completely disorganized.
>>>>>>> -A HACKER came to solder some cables (poor fool). He searched for
>>>>>>> solder
>>>>>>> amidst the piles of garbage for half an hour and, hey, found a couple
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> inches!
>>>>>>> -I met a woman who informed me that she could not get a bed at a
>>>>>>> shelter,
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> she came to Noisebridge.
>>>>>>> -Various other non-hacking non-members were hanging out.
>>>>>>> -I heard there's a new Kitchen Working Group, peopled by non-hacking,
>>>>>>> non-member kitchen-users (appointed, Vee said, by Gregory Dillon).
>>>>>>> Gregory,
>>>>>>> i suggest you also create a group called "Sleeping Taskforce"-- you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> appoint some squatters.
>>>>>>> -Vee said "people who use the kitchen have laptops-- isn't that
>>>>>>> hacking?"
>>>>>>> -I watched as a Member stretched an electric extension cord across a
>>>>>>> walkway
>>>>>>> (I guess he missed the email about not doing that).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So please tell us Naomi, where is the positive change you mentioned.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>> see it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JAKE, is this change in the direction you'd like? Ready to come
>>>>>>> back??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>>
>>>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>
>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>
>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>
>

-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost