[Noisebridge-discuss] Problem: people seeing NB as a backup shelter

Fri May 9 20:13:03 UTC 2014

Fortunately, nobody in the #security-wg on Slack is paying attention
to this thread anymore.  We're still just planning to get a keypad.

--Naomi

On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
> This thread is taking a worrying turn toward "wishful thinking" and away
> from "doing".
>
>
> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds like fun.  (With one major "but", below.)
>>
>> I'd be concerned about its fragility as a component in security
>> infrastructure -- it will have power needs and maybe some other
>> maintenance issues -- but I don't see any reason why we couldn't play
>> around with something like that and install it when we're convinced
>> that it works.
>>
>> BUT... a key entry system that requires foot-mobility would greatly
>> reduce the accessibilty of our space.  We do have members in
>> wheelchairs and members who regularly sprain their ankles.  :)
>>
>> So if we did this fun thing, it would have to be "in addition to" the
>> keypad -- not a replacement for it.
>>
>> --Naomi
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Oren Beck <orenbeck at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Do we even need a "keypad" as such?
>> >
>> > I wonder... as a wild hare rabbit stew level idea- a camera aimed at
>> > numbers
>> > projected on floor.  Block beam to # with foot in sequence= camera shows
>> > the
>> > sequence to some AI realm program.  sort of how traffic lights use a
>> > camera
>> > for  lane occupied detection.
>> >
>> >  I'd even consider- crude Machine CV scripts? Idea is: to begin timer
>> > loops
>> > when a foot blocks beam ...
>> >
>> >
>> > Place foot on light dot of #1= camera "sees" that as a button push.
>> > Soft
>> > tone to ack the press. Repeat per digits till done.  Wrong codes might
>> > start
>> > a delay penalty timer... and/or "who's at the door" chime in the
>> > space???
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >  If you know the code and how to step it in - After a few seconds of
>> > footsie
>> > the relay clicks and you're in.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > There's a million details to get a usable build of my hack.  But the
>> > basic
>> > concept is my gift to NB... I rather hope that some folks can show their
>> > best efforts at this.
>> >
>> > I'd dare presume to assign person's X to some sub-task but that would be
>> > cheating..  My
>> >
>> > Oren Beck
>> >
>> > 816.632.3695
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm merely suggesting that someone who has the expertise and enjoys
>> >> the activity should probably be given the opportunity to step up and
>> >> do a fun thing.
>> >>
>> >> --Naomi
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 12:03 PM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > it doesn't matter if you *like* installing keypads.  you install a
>> >> > keypad
>> >> > because you feel strongly that it needs to be done. half the reason
>> >> > we're at
>> >> > the point we're at is because people only want to do what they like
>> >> > and
>> >> > not
>> >> > what needs to be done regardless of if they like it, and not enough
>> >> > people
>> >> > support the idea that we all have to do shit we don't necessarily
>> >> > find
>> >> > to be
>> >> > all rainbows and unicorns to make the space work the best for
>> >> > everyone
>> >> > involved.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yep, makes sense to me.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Let's do that.  Who's around who likes installing keypads?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 11:51 AM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > that was my initial suggestion when i floated the idea of putting
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> > keypad.  another key part of that idea was putting the keypad at
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > TOP
>> >> >> > OF
>> >> >> > THE STAIRS (not outside the gate).
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > let me repeat that: the keypad needs to go AT THE TOP OF THE
>> >> >> > STAIRS.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > of course everyone who ran with the idea put the stupid thing
>> >> >> > outside
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > gate, and it was a dumb idea and i had to disinvolve myself
>> >> >> > because
>> >> >> > they
>> >> >> > were fucking it up.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > the reason it needs to go at the top of the stairs is so it will
>> >> >> > not
>> >> >> > affect
>> >> >> > access to the rest of the building (let's not forget we are not
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > only
>> >> >> > tenants who use that downstairs gate) and it will allow people to
>> >> >> > look
>> >> >> > through the porthole and see who is even there in the first place.
>> >> >> > it
>> >> >> > would
>> >> >> > probably be relatively trivial to just move the current keypad to
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > top of
>> >> >> > the stairs and set up a timed lock mechanism.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> A very cool suggestion was made at the SecWG meeting two
>> >> >> >> Thursdays
>> >> >> >> ago
>> >> >> >> (next meeting this Thursday at 7pm!)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The idea was to install a physical two-factor auth system, where
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> key still works, but between certain certain hours (or some other
>> >> >> >> heuristic) there's a keypad that must be entered to allow the key
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> actually open the door.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --Naomi
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 11:43 AM, daravinne <daravinne at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > other people use the building besides us.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > changing the lock would also halt the worldwide outreach that
>> >> >> >> > Mitch
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > others do by giving hackers and hackerspaces in other countries
>> >> >> >> > copies
>> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> > the noisebridge key by rendering that keypattern obsolete.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > the solution is a combination of access control, improved
>> >> >> >> > ownership
>> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> > redshirts team, and outreach within the space that guides
>> >> >> >> > people
>> >> >> >> > who
>> >> >> >> > are
>> >> >> >> > using it as a crashpad / alternate shelter to other resources
>> >> >> >> > (which
>> >> >> >> > simultaneously gets them out of the space and messages that the
>> >> >> >> > space
>> >> >> >> > is
>> >> >> >> > definitely NOT a crashpad).
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Since we are currently way past Dunbar's number AND mired in
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > Tragedy
>> >> >> >> > of
>> >> >> >> > the Commons, it will take some fairly special, admirable and
>> >> >> >> > dedicated
>> >> >> >> > people to take ownership of these problems and see them through
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > resolution (you know, sticking with it past all the
>> >> >> >> > initial-failure
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> > solving/tweaking mode stuff).
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Hannah Grimm
>> >> >> >> > <dharlette at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> I think that the solution here is access control to the space.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> That starts with changing the lock, but I suspect that lots of
>> >> >> >> >> folks
>> >> >> >> >> would
>> >> >> >> >> be opposed to that.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> Johny reported:
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> "I met a woman who informed me that she could not get a bed
>> >> >> >> >>> at a
>> >> >> >> >>> shelter, so she came to Noisebridge."
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> #0: is this a problem?  [yes, but is it a problem Noisebridge
>> >> >> >> >>> can
>> >> >> >> >>> fix?]
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> #1: What should we do to prevent this?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> #2: If it can't be prevented, how should we address it when
>> >> >> >> >>> it
>> >> >> >> >>> arises?
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> --
>> >> >> >> >>> Naomi Theora Most
>> >> >> >> >>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> >> >> >> >>> +1-415-728-7490
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> skype: nthmost
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> >> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Naomi Theora Most
>> >> >> >> naomi at nthmost.com
>> >> >> >> +1-415-728-7490
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> skype: nthmost
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Naomi Theora Most
>> >> >> naomi at nthmost.com
>> >> >> +1-415-728-7490
>> >> >>
>> >> >> skype: nthmost
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Naomi Theora Most
>> >> naomi at nthmost.com
>> >> +1-415-728-7490
>> >>
>> >> skype: nthmost
>> >>
>> >> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>

-- 
Naomi Theora Most
naomi at nthmost.com
+1-415-728-7490

skype: nthmost

http://twitter.com/nthmost