[Noisebridge-discuss] New Space Meeting Notes for 9-Dec-2017
kprichard
kprichard at gmail.com
Thu Dec 14 00:30:53 UTC 2017
https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09
New space meeting 2017 12 09
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Riseup pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/NBNewSpace2017109
Contents [hide <https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#>
]
- 1 Overview
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Overview>
- 2 Intros
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Intros>
- 3 Agenda
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Agenda>
- 4 Announcements
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Announcements>
- 5 Places we've seen
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Places_we.27ve_seen>
- 6 What size can we get, what can we afford?
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#What_size_can_we_get.2C_what_can_we_afford.3F>
- 7 Fundraising
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Fundraising>
- 8 Business Model, Funding, Fundraising
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Business_Model.2C_Funding.2C_Fundraising>
- 9 To Do
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#To_Do>
- 10 Results
<https://noisebridge.net/wiki/New_space_meeting_2017_12_09#Results>
[edit
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]Overview
Our lease will be up at the end of August, 2018. Month or two extension
possible, but doesn't present much time.
Other orgs have expressed desire to find a new place with NB.
[edit
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]Intros
- Mitch Altman - One of NB's cofounders, very excited to find a new
space and the possibilities that presents.
- Dan: curious about the process, and what space is needed
- Scotty: A member, spends most of his time traveling. Very motivated,
sees this as an opportunity not a risk to get even more awesome space for
NB, and to secure our long-term future. Some challenges ahead of us.
- Drew: Noisebridge is the government of the future. He is here by
accident. Working on other stuff
- Trent: Likes the idea of having a new space, too.
- Dawn: Wants to help
- J: Loves teaching, loves what NB has done for people regardless of
background. Excited of possibilities for new space and what we can do with
it.
- Marie: got here 48 hours ago from Berlin. Happy to be hrere
- Jarrod: works on the space. Would like to keep this space, but another
would be okay.
- Ryan: Loves hanging out and helping out at NB, hoping his family's
historic real estate love might help here.
- Jeremy: he's new and loves this place and wants to see it go on.
- Kevin: been coming for about a year, loves this place, learned so
much, let's see it survive and propser.
[edit
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]Agenda
- people have been going out and seeing spaces. People can share details
about that (Mitch)
- Discussion about what big donors we could try to contact (Ryan)
- Ideas, brainstorm about raising money, how do we get a mortgage (J)
- All roads seem to lead from fundraising to lots of possibilities
(Trent).
- Has there been a convo about types of spaces to look into? The Port
Authority might have space for NPOs (Jeremy).
- Like to ahve a conversation around increasing its income on an ongoing
basis (Scotty) - paid classes, renting out for private workshops, which is
part of going in on a space iwth other organizations. Getting
- Find out who in City government knows how to make NB recognized as a
public utility or institution that the City gives us a building. Support
from the City (Ryan)
[edit
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]Announcements
- I've scheduled an appointment to visit *465 Tehama St. on 2017-12-13
(next Wednesday) at 14:00*; with Mark Brown. If anyone wants to join,
please come. (Jarrod). $3.8 Million purch, two stories, 7,000 SF. Mixed use
zoning.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/off/d/unique-soma-warehouse/6403630230.html
- Internet Archives have been getting massive donations for books, CDs,
records and are looking for more space, possibly buying bunkers over in
East Bay. But looking for another SF City location, and might be interested
in helping out Noisebridge. They might have support from country-level
governments. (Ryan)
[edit
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]Places we've seen
- Place on 130-132 Turk Street (
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/off/d/multi-use-space-with/6400877288.html
, https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=8fCY8XfHTtD ) in Tenderloin (Dawn)
- no elevator, but ground floor. Weird permit situation: public
institution, arts & education, under $10K rent, 6,000 SF. Two floors, has
ground floor.
- 1035 Howard Street @ Russ St (6-7th Streets), 62,000 SF, for sale.
(Ryan)
http://www.cityfeet.com/cont/san-francisco-ca/industrial-property-for-sale?llz=37.77838,-122.41105,15z&l=3-19282
- 20 Heron: cool space, $2/SF, wants soon occupancy. Just became
available. Broker says owner doesn't want to do buildout, so if we took
as-is the price might be reduced. Minimum space to rent would be 22,000 SF.
Good coalition space, good location, artsy neighborhood, covered bridge
connecting buildings, possible signage. Large elevator, one ADA-compliant
bathroom, gay porn distributor in ground floor (wants to stay). Roof with
patio-able area. Very much a Noisebridge type space, but large and
challenging. Possibly not enough bathrooms, would need to be built,
especially if we take on subtenants. Subtenants means building out office
spaces. Broker thinks owner might like Noisebridge. (Scotty)
- Sansome Street Advisors have 50+ buildings for lease and purchase.
They co-invest in the places they sell, if they find a good reason to -
NPOs which might get them tax brakes, e.g. We should talk with them. (Ryan)
Sansome Street advisors
220 Montgomery Street, Suite 1850
San Francisco, CA 94104
https://sansomeadvisors.com/
[edit
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]What size can we get, what can we afford?
- What's our current financial ability? (Jeremy) It is around $10k per
month (J)
1.
1. Other Info, NPOs with similar needs, Orgs that can help
- Mitch has been talking with Dina Beard, exec dir of The Lab (tenant @
Redstone Bldg at Capp St & 16th St). The Redstone Bldg has been a
non-profit building since the '30s ("Labor Temple"), currently owned by an
absentee landlord, which might be the saving grace. He keeps holding out
for more money on offers. Current offer $21 mil, he wants $25 mil. The
place hosts many NPOs. But if they get evicted, if the bldg sells, they'll
all be looking for a place. If the landlord continues rejecting offers
they'll still ahve aplace to stay.
- The City is building a property on Bryant near 16th for displaced
NPOs. NPOs can buy/build a space in that building, then they're good in
perpetuity. Dina & The Lab are looking to this building as a possible
permanent home. The City has a fund for loaing to NPOs so that they can
afford to buy a building.
- The San Francisco Community Land Trust works with NPOs and cooperative
housing groups to buy properties. The Trust purchases the property and
gives you a 99-year lease, effectively in perpetuity because the lease
renewal is automagic. Praveen Suha lives in one of the buildings the Trust
purchased. LOL (Liberating Ourselves Locally) purchased a building in
Oakland with the Trust's help.
- Ryan suggests looking for a financial advisor, somebody or an org that
can assist Noisebridge with our search for a permanent home.
- The Foundation Center has resources for NPOs, and they might have
advice for NB about properties to acquire / rent. They have info about
professional fundraisers. They have info on other NPOs that we might
collaborate with. They have workshops to assist / educate NPOs. On Sutter
Street in downtown. Foundation Center is U.S.-wide, exists to bring
together funders and NPOs. Offices only in SF and NYC. They have huge
databases which we can use for free.
- Truss Offices, where the Pink Flamingo was built, is a possible space.
(Jeremy)
- Mitch is looking into the builders of The Monument before he leaves
town.
[edit
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]Fundraising
- (J) @nthmost mentioned last meeting that we need a story to tell if we
are going to do fundraising at such a large level. I started thinking about
what Noisebridge has been doing, specially when other organizations ask for
our advice or help. I think something like this should be a good starting
point:
- Noisebridge is a place that provides a physical space and customized
guidance, to improve education, develop greater creativity, and stimulate
true innovation. We do this by facilitating classes, individual and group
orientation, a location with several specialized tools, and people with a
high level of experience and training in a diverse set of skill sets. We
give guidance and assistance to schools, libraries, profit and nonprofit
organizations, and anyone that is able to benefit from our services
regardless of color, age, sexual orientation, or economic background. We
believe that a way to truly improve our community is to empower them
enhancing their education through exploration and collaboration.
- This is to help convince funders to give us money.
- Do we need a "pitch deck"? (Ryan) A pitch deck might be fun, for
noisebridge, per Mitch.
- If we find a mixed-use space, we get a space for parties, which helps
with fundraising. We might also be able to have apartments. When people
come visit we can rent the rooms. Hacker-in-residence program. Drew poured
water on this - having humans as tenants is very much a complicated legal
matter. SROs limit stays to three weeks, for example, to evade tenancy
issues.
[edit
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]Business Model, Funding, Fundraising
- (Mitch) Hackerspaces around the world have coworking spaces, to help
make money. Desk, room rentals.
- Classes, workshops, for a fee. Noisebridge is one of the few spaces
that does not charge for classes, because we want to make it easy for
everyone to attend.
- Suggested donation, sliding scale, pay more to provide scholarships.
- Some folks can afford to pay more, leverage that.
- Experiment: running paid classes, soon, now. We'd provide access to
everybody via scholarship, for those who send in an email explaining their
need case.
- Data science and web programming are popular topics, let's take
advantage (Dawn)
- Help a person with their project - paid technical advisors (Ryan)
People who don't have time to learn everything themselves, that would be
willing to pay.
- Noisebridge has always been a place where classes are free. It's easy
to stay in that habit, but consider why we're opposed to things in life,
like always having free classes. What would that mean? Maybe we should try
it out and see how it goes. (Steve)
- We don't have to pay instructors (Scotty), we should consider that.
- Precedent: $20 suggested donation for Laser Cutter class. (Jarrod) Not
required, but many people contribute (Trent)
- Formalize class donations by selling tickets (Scotty)
- If we want to move ahead with making Noisebridge sustainable, while
keeping classes accessible to all income levels, try this: Noisebridge
Community Credit Program. People can donate for classes, but people can
earn credits by doing things around the space. Cleaning, teaching classes,
etc. A local currency, Noisecoin. (J)
- Mitch has been in orgs where local currency was used but didn't work
out.
- Some people lvoe the space and take efforts to care for the space,
regardless of the money (J). Jarrod is wary of putting monetary value on
what heretofore has been donated labor.
- To be welcome here, to both benefit from and contribute to
Noisebridge, not just money works, doing physical things also works. (Mitch)
- Can we simplify recurring donations? Can we make an internal version
for non-members, non-philanthropists? (Ryan) Yes, it's already in place
(Drew). This would be a good thing to hand out to people.
- Amazon Smile program for Noisebridge exists. Mitch is wary of having
the Amazon logo on the website.
- ICO: Noisecoin. Many people have had this idea. Victoria when she
worked for Ripple created a Noisecoin, years ago. No regulations,
currently, so it should be easy. People can donate as much as they want!
(Mitch) Needs a huge PR event (Scotty) Tell our story, big PR move, a
YouTube outreach (J)
- Patreon: Ryan wants to host one of the classes he's been planning.
There's equipment and expenses involved. A class like "laser cut coasters"
for example. Getting a donation system for this. A live-streamed class
people could host. People who can't come to NB space could still donate,
watch online, and get a product of the class (coasters etc). Would get
their name mentioned during the video. So instead of Patreon getting the
money, Noisebridge would get it all.
- Noisebridge's YT channel is not currently monetized. Prob. because we
don't get enough views.
- How about running a trial paid class, with a base cost, 100% of the
money goes to Noisebridge. (Scotty) How is this different from other
classes NB runs? (Jeremy) There would be more to it than existing classes.
(Scotty) Manish has offered to do more in-depth laser cutter class, for NB
pay. Jarrod has an uneasy feeling about this.
- J: When we do a class like this, there needs to be a certain value
gotten by attendees, a take-home thing for example. A sign that lights up!
- Jarrod: this reminds him of the Crucible. They teach welding,
fabrication, in West Oakland. They're non-profit but have pricey classes.
The Cruicible doesn't have much way to use their facility outside of
classes. Noisebridge potentially has broader subject matter (Scotty)
- There's a line at which Noisebridge loses it's soul (Jeremy), but we
need to experiment (Kevin) in order to find out what brings in more money,
but lets NB keep its integrity and ethics in supporting the community.
- If people want an expedited learning experience they can pay more
(Ryan). You can continue to learn free-of-charge, but on your own time, or
at free classes. Expedited == money. Time vs money.
- Noisebridge needs to evolve, so we can move on to the next step. We're
hackers, we look at things, poke at them, solve problems. We should be
confident that our current community is strong enough to say that if
something doesn't feel right, we can say "no."
- Noisebridge is good for self-starters. But people who aren't, who like
a something-for-something deal (a class for $) might not recognize or feel
comfortable being here. We should consider presenting a more recognizable
surface for those people, and the proposed experiments offer that (Kevin)
- Having a way to keep equipment repaired and functional would make NB
more attractive (Kevin)
- Mitch has seen paid coworking areas at hackerspaces around the world.
It's a problem, though, when those spaces are not separate. If they're
shared with the non-paying public it's a problem for the paying people. So,
separate coworking spaces is a thing to consider for the future. Hacking
cubicle rental.
- What about the people who have used Noisebridge for coworking in the
past, what benefit have they provided? Money or maintenance.
- For example Kyle, who started a successful company.
- Uncomfortable with the word "Cowork" at Noisebridge (Scotty) But
having a space with a door to rent for the Kyles. There's potentially
awesome synergy, so long as we get people we're comfortable with, who bring
good positive energy. People who fit well within Noisebridge. Scotty would
be willing to rent space like that. We might've kept Type A Machines if
that sort of deal was available.
- Mitch: with a bigger space this would be possible. When he said
coworking that's what he meant. Need to come up with a new term, due to
baggage around "cowork."
- Ryan: lockers. Can they be for pay? He'd happily pay $40 to be able to
store his tools here, rather than transport them or not have access.
Different than a tool donation.
- Let's start building an endowment (Kevin). We will need much money.
- Jarrod: proposes to label for-pay classes "Fundraising classes." Kevin
thinks that's confusing, that we need a label with the same meaning. It's a
solid idea, to make clear that a class is for pay, benefits the community,
funds NB.
- Jeremy: with a big enough space, what's the downside to cordoning it
off for coworking, physically adjacent but separate? Not mixing with
Noisebridgers.
- Dawn: how would that affect NB's 501(c)3 status? Consensus is it's
manageable.
- Mitch: might need a paid position for managing the building.
- Jarrod: the heart of our community is that we share tools and space.
Those tools exist for people that make profit, as well as those learning
for free. It's important that special tools remain accessible to all, and
not be held under lock and key.
- Ryan: there's a chance one of the groups we're working with will take
on the coworking portion of the space, and would help pay for the building.
- Kevin: the idea of Noisebridge as Master Tenant, subletting space to
coworkers and NPOs, was to make our rent more manageable.
- Jay: those subtenants would be separate entities with their own doors.
It's an exciting possibility. What "flavor" is Noisebridge going to give to
rental spaces, to the donation-required classes? How would we be different
from other orgs offering similar?
- Mitch: we don't have the wherwithal to manage a building by ourselves,
we might want to hire a building manager, who would be under our direction.
- J: working with a fundraiser and other advisors from Foundation Center
might get us this knowledge and enable us to continue hacking, what we do
best.
- Mitch: Frameline collectively bought a building on 9th Street. How do
they manage the building?
- Project Arto (Kevin) might be worth looking in to.
- Scott: what about Noisebridge's logo, how can we monetize that? Cafe
Press mugs and T-shirts, for example. Easy to set up, hands-off, easy money.
- Mitch, Lizzie: is our logo free from IP encumberances? Appears to be.
- Trent: we could do the licensing thing, setting a price.
- Mitch: Dreamworks wanted permission to use NB's logo. Story on
Boingboing about this. They used it, we washed our hands of it. Fair use
(Jarrod). We refused to sign their rights waiver (Scotty). This was in Jan
2013. Unicorn rainbow-peeing on Dreamworks logo. They wanted it to be "real
as possible."
- Jarrod: how can we get a million people to donate a dollar apiece?
There was an indiegogo campaign for the reboot (Mitch). What about all the
geeks out there who would appreciate our story? (Kevin/Jeremy)
- Kevin: we need to leverage the drama of our situation, that we're
about to become victims of the success of the startup culture in SF because
we're being priced out of the market. We've benefitted the tech community
tremendously. We need them to see us as a victims that need help. That can
compel donations.
- Mitch: we're victims of the alt-right, that we're listed as a "liberal
DIY space."
- Trent: on the same thread we were regarded as "alright," maybe because
we're seen as libertarian / anarcho-capitalist or something. But continue
the drumbeat of we're being priced out.
- Gamenest's rent went up (Ryan), they want to reemerge. They're another
group pushed out due to gentrification and rents increasing. We can contact
as many of these as possible - "How are you guys dealing in the bay area?"
Can we get stories out there to get us coverage, start a local cause.
- J: John Shutt would be good for writing something like this.
- Dawn: We should get a fundraising website set up before sending out
the story.
- Trent: donate.noisebridge.net is on the Noisebridge github account:
https://github.com/noisebridge/donate.noisebridge.net
- Mitch: Hilary Ronin is coming to NB on January 25th. She's our City
supervisor. We should prepare a horse and pony show for her to tell
Noisebridge's story. She led the Presidio Terrace tax sale rescindment at
Board of Supes.
- Ryan: we want SOMA, downtown etc landlords fighting over us.
Supervisors can help with this.
- Kevin: how can we tell our story so that people absolutely want us in
their building, their neighborhood?
- Become our own country. The Principality of Noisebridge, e.g. There is
an atoll in the Pacific to which a friend of Mitch's holds the deed. We
just need to get a number of countries to recognize us as a country.
[edit
<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=New_space_meeting_2017_12_09&action=edit§ion=9>
]To Do
- Vending machines: get some real vending machines (J). Existing
machines require much hacking to get working with credit card or online
pay. Modern vending machines rent $124/mo, 48-month commitment. Mitch: what
about buying machines?
- DIY vending machines is a thing.
- Things to vend: Arduinos, RPis, Club Mate, soda, beer, snacks, hacking
tools.
- Call out Noisebridge's Amazon Smile program on the homepage and our
donation page
- Call out the recurring donation feature for anybody to use.
- Next meeting: Dec 16th, Saturday 6:00PM
- (Ryan)- Make Pitch deck for noisebridge.
- think up a good name for a noisebridge flavor co-working type space
- think up name for "fundrasing" classes (paid classes ment to help
fundraise for noisebridge)
- Need to call a regular fundraising meeting
[edit
<https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=New_space_meeting_2017_12_09&action=edit§ion=10>
]Results
- Little-C consensus on experimenting with paid classes
- Need a separate fundraising meeting, it needs as much attention as
getting a space
This document: https://pad.riseup.net/p/NBNewSpace2017109
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