[Rack] [Noisebridge-discuss] RFID tag research (was: Problem: people seeing NB as a backup shelter)

Gregory Dillon gregorydillon at gmail.com
Sat May 10 20:01:10 UTC 2014


First and most important, I'm cheering on your efforts of today,  so I'll
leave that thought to another day.


On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden
<jeffreyatw at gmail.com>wrote:

> It's certainly possible. You could even fork this and provide a pull
> request.
> https://github.com/noisebridge/noisebridge-baron
>
> But any time at which an event is in progress seems like a time at which
> the door (and gate, probably) should just be unlocked, so I'm not sure of
> the utility.
>
>
> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Gregory Dillon <gregorydillon at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Would keycodes that expire in one, two, or three days be practical
>> programatically?     If so, a class or event could give out keycodes for
>> the day, and the attendees might feel more like they have a special
>> invitation and are more part of the scene.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I have objections about temporary cards, mostly due to the difficulty of
>>> disbursing and maintaining these sorts of things for one-time use... and I
>>> think "access for the day" should still be done the way we are (or should
>>> be) doing it now, which is by having an associate member vouch for a
>>> visitor by simply letting them in and keeping track of them. But anyway, we
>>> can discuss this in person.
>>>
>>> 11ish it is! See you then.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9 May 2014 23:33, Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you so much for going ahead and making these donations! I would
>>>>> like to help out with installation, programming, whatever I can do -
>>>>> although I'm not too familiar with this sort of hardware,
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Me neither, but that is the fun of it :) As long as there are cables to
>>>> solder and protocols to analyze it is cool.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>  and while I can program in whatever language is necessary, I've never
>>>>> set up anything having to do with this sort of automation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From there, automation is simple.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On the topic of automation, the *unofficial* consensus is that these
>>>>> readers could only be activated at a certain time, but inactive at times of
>>>>> high traffic.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds doable. The door would just have a DC electric strike that is
>>>> open over the day. At other times, it locks and can only be activated with
>>>> the reader.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have ideas about who can be granted these NFC cards? I believe
>>>>> they should only be granted to associate or full members, as the benefit of
>>>>> being an associate member is the ability to be in the space without a
>>>>> sponsor. (That means if you're not one, you might want to start fishing for
>>>>> sponsorships on a wiki user page.)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, full/associate members should get cards, but they can as well be
>>>> temporarily given out to people or associated for given times. It can as
>>>> well be cheap as anyone with another NFC card (e.g. a clipper card) could
>>>> be associated with the system (that way it is simple to grant some random
>>>> person with a sponsor at the place access for the day. With even further
>>>> ideas: someone with a sponsor has access for the day as long as the sponsor
>>>> has not 'checked out' with her card. A lot of door-keeping is not done
>>>> properly because it is so annoying. This could make it simple).
>>>>
>>>> I am not really any of these new member categories, but might as well
>>>> get started ( Hello, old-term hackers that are all gone from NB now :( but
>>>> still know me, please sponsor me :)
>>>> https://noisebridge.net/wiki/User:Hzeller )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The problem, of course, is that you're going to get major pushback and
>>>>> this entire project is going to be branded as "unexcellent" if you don't
>>>>> get the support you need.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I'll check the waters on next meeting. I can't think that anyone
>>>> would be against a simplified and better access control, but then again, I
>>>> know this mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> People will certainly go so far as to dismantle the system if they
>>>>> don't agree with it. I think you should involve the Security Working Group,
>>>>> pending a future meeting, whenever that is.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the meantime, I'm willing to meet up to discuss this. I'm available
>>>>> midday tomorrow, around 11 to 3. I'd be happy to show up at the space to
>>>>> discuss a plan of action.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds good. I think I'll show up around 11:00ish as well.
>>>>
>>>> -h
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jeffrey
>>>>>
>>>>> (P.S.: in response to your email in the other thread... regardless of
>>>>> who's at the space or how safe it is, I still wouldn't leave my stuff
>>>>> there... or anywhere like NB, for that matter.)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I know. But I'd expect to have at least stuff on a member-shelf
>>>> without random people rummaging through it. Well or find a soldering iron
>>>> if needed :/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 9:41 PM, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> Alright, as discussed in the other thread, lets install RFID readers
>>>>>> for physical access control to Noisebridge to address one of the problems
>>>>>> we have right now: simple access for members/associate members (or whatever
>>>>>> these are called nowadays). Initially at the top door, later as well at the
>>>>>> front door (in parallel to physical key and keypad).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have researched the space a bit. For one, we have a 950Mhz reader
>>>>>> and a couple of tags. The experiments with these (
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/RFID ) had some trouble getting the
>>>>>> actual device ID, only the re-writeable part (which made them hard to use a
>>>>>> non-forgeable entry keys). These tags might actually be really useful to
>>>>>> make sure that tools and stuff don't 'vanish'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what else is there, in particular used for entry systems:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 125kHz tags exist, are very simple and allow to give out an ID. They
>>>>>> are pretty cheap (~30cent for a credit-card size). Their use is limited and
>>>>>> cannot be re-written.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most promising I think is the NFC range of 13.57Mhz. These cards are
>>>>>> as well pretty cheap (~30cent each at first look on ebay; other
>>>>>> form-factors such as stickers exist). They come in ranges of capabilities:
>>>>>> they all have a unique ID and allow to write data to it (from 64 byte up to
>>>>>> a couple of kB). More higher end cards have encryption on-board. One of the
>>>>>> great advantages (IMHO) is, that most common smart-phones now come with an
>>>>>> NFC reader which would allow for some simple hacking. We can start with a
>>>>>> simple scheme by just reading the ID (which is more level security than we
>>>>>> need at NB), but playing with the memory for more things (changing random
>>>>>> number on each entry, or a section with your PGP public key..).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, unless there are good technical objections to using these
>>>>>> kind of NFC cards, I am doocratically ordering a bunch of these 13.57Mhz
>>>>>> cards and get readers and start playing; I'll donate them to NB.
>>>>>> (Anyone has 13.57Mhz cards lying around already?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Henner
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Let's stay in touch.  Greg
>>
>
>


-- 
Let's stay in touch.  Greg
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