[Tastebridge] [Noisebridge-discuss] take it easy, it is just an another situation to learn from

Sean Cusack sean.p.cusack at gmail.com
Thu Apr 21 22:43:42 UTC 2011

Frantisek -

I think Rikke's idea is a good one. You probably remember that Tastebridge
had a theft of about $100 a couple of months ago as well. We decided to not
lock up the funds or anything after that occurrence because it may have been
a one off bad apple. Fast forward to now, and another theft. Although I
agree with you that keeping money out of sight worked fine in the past, it
does not appear to be working too well now, so its probably time for a
better solution.

Realize that the donation bin for noisebridge is locked now as well due to
similar problems/concerns. Its not bolted down or anything, but the lock
makes it just 20% harder to make off with the funds that are in that bucket,
and seems to discourage thieves without making the space seem like a bank.

Lastly, realize that everything that is purchased with the tastebridge cash
is still in the open. That cash is used for raw materials for food,
kombucha, and brewed stuff which is made freely available to anyone in the
space at any time. So, I'm not sure how locking up just the cash limits all
the wonderful things that are produced from it.

Anyways, I like Rikke's idea - let's add some minor security so everyone can
continue to enjoy the cool things made by Tastebridge!


On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 2:04 PM, <algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org> wrote:

> Greetings to all!
> I think that Rubin's email is kind of saying what I mean, some of his
> suggestions are very "fresh ones" but that is the reason why I like
> them. He uses open approach, with hammer in his hand sometimes but
> open ...
> I send close emails to people if I think that it is better to discuss
> things with them first off the list, it is a usual practice done by
> many Noisebridge members who I value. I do not have a problem if
> someone posts my emails, I hope I'm clear here. To be absolutely
> honest I meant to send it to discuss too but I've failed, not for the
> first time.
> I do express my opinion if I do not agree with something. I'm trying
> not to let things happen if I believe it is not a good idea. Your post
> saying basically "I'm closing the donation box if you want a key you
> can talk to me" without discussing this option on Noisebridge or
> Tastebridge mailing list is not as good as it could be. It is not just
> me who is not at SF just right now, Fabian, Benni, Josh and others are
> now also away and I think that they should have a chance to say what
> they think about it too.
> Concerning where the money stays. I've found that to have larger
> quantities of money out of sight works fine because as I've said
> before "no temptation". Think of Noisebridge in a larger scale, most
> of the time no keys to donation bins and no large amounts of money in
> them, money sits somewhere safe. It seems to me fine and it works. If
> there are for the last few months locks on the jars I hope it is just
> temporary and I doubt there are on all donation bins in the space.
> If my comments are not welcomed I'm sorry but I do believe this is an
> important matter and I really hope that another than "lock them out"
> option is going to be used. I should maybe not use the phrasing that I
> do not want to interfere, my fault, sorry. I do want to interfere.
> I think that you take this personally. I can ensure you that if Mitch
> posted that he wants to lock the Tastebridge donation bin I would ask
> him to try another solution.
> If I did not make you realise what I'm talking about I'm sorry. I've
> tried but your points of view on this matter may be too different, we
> should wait and see what the community thinks of it. If they are fine
> with closed box I'll be not particularly happy but I think that I can
> live with it.
> Peace and love,
> Frantisek
> PS If you think that the tricks which I've used to secure the budget
> for Tastebridge would not work now because of what ever reasons (time,
> amount of people involved etc.) try something else. All what I ask is
> to leave the box closure as the last possible solution.
> I for one see this as a message from a higher being, telling us that
> kombucha is a source of evil that will eventually consume Noisebridge in
> a fury of fermented tea and bacteria growth that has the consistency of
> ham.
> OR there are a growing number of interesting people inhabiting
> (infesting?) the space that no one has stopped to inform them who we
> are, what we do, and how we operate as a group.
> Note 1: Noisebridge operates well when it isn't taken advantage of.
> Note 2: It's easy to take advantage of something when you don't
> understand (or when no one has introduced you to the concept).
> --
> Rubin Abdi
> rubin at starset.net
> Hi Frantisek,
> Please explain something to me: In your opinion, what is the
> difference between having somebody take the money home (a treasurer)
> and having a box in the space that anyone may have a key to? It's also
> a little hard to take your talk of openness seriously when it's only
> happening in closed emails.
> You're not just interfering, you're trying to run the show, and it's
> not unwelcome. Please stop.
> /Rikke
> P.S.: Thanks for the offer, but we've already got a hook-up through Om
> Shan Tea House, so I think we'll be alright.
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 9:32 AM, <algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org> wrote:
>     Look Rikke,
>     Most support which we got from people to start the project and to
> keep it running was given by people who are directly against charging
> fees for classes because of the openness of Noisebridge and strongly
> arguing against any locked boxes which have appeared quite recently
> and were unwelcome by many. It is just as it is, good or bad doesn't
> matter, I take it as a fact.
>     It is hard for me to know how Tastebridge is doing because there
> are close to no posts on the Tastebrige webpages or on the discuss
> lists. I've lowered the amount of my posts partly because I wanted to
> create more space for others to go ahead. And yes also because it
> takes a hell of time to keep thing like this alive and vibrant and
> I've my limitations.
>     I do understand that people have different amounts of time, again
> that is fact. I've just been trying to remind ways which we have used
> before to get money and which worked. We have been loosing money on
> donations before as Noisebridge did. It is not a new thing. I just
> strongly feel that the gain from having it open over weight the amount
> of money loosed if managed well.
>     Concerning the openness of access that is questionable. After
> doing this for a while I've still always open box on my events and
> during my activities. I think it is not just cool, it works at least
> for me and I hoped it could be sustainable for Tastebridge too. I just
> do not think that this system is necessary.
>     I've expressed my opinion, that is all what I can do now so I do
> not interfere too much.
>     If you take the road of locked system, so be it but I would love
> to see another solution how to keep the budget in plus numbers and
> donation box open. If you feel that the time constrain is too big, I
> would understand of course. However taking money on regular basis has
> the advantage of not tempting too much. I think that to see $5 and $50
> lying on a table is for many people different grade of temptation.
>     Sincerely,
>     Frantisek
>     PS Please do not feel harmed that is certainly not an intention
> of my comments. However I've a strong view on some things and that is
> one of the reason why I'm able to get support to do things from some
> people and quite gaining quite nothing from others.
>     PS II. It may be that I'll apply in the future the closed box
> system too, but I hope I'll not have to. I would have to be strongly
> forced to do so. It may be hard to explain  but this is one of the
> things which is important for me and for the projects which I run.
>     PS III. I may ask Three Stone Hearths if they would be OK to make
> some order for us for whole sale prices. They would not be probably
> very happy about it mostly because it would complicate their
> accounting system.
>     Quoting Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>:
>         Frantisek,
>         It's not a matter of people not donating - on the contrary,
> we've been doing
>         fine just with the weekly kombucha and a little food here and
> there - it's a
>         matter of us having very deliberately *not* having locked
> away or removed
>         any funds, exactly because no one wants to have to make any
> decisions that
>         detract from the openness of our community, and someone then
> having taken
>         advantage of that openness.
>         Don't see the principal difference between a treasurer
> removing the money
>         and a locked box in the fridge that anyone can get keys and
> access to? It
>         wouldn't be the only donation box in the space with a lock on
> it, either.
>         Stocks have been managed better than you might expect - we're
> still running
>         on the last of what you bought just before you left. I thank
> you for the
>         advice, but while I appreciate that Tastebridge was your full-time
>         occupation, none of us currently have that option, and I
> can't help but feel
>         a little hurt by the implication that it can't function any
> other way. I
>         think we've been doing really well, all things considered.
>         /Rikke
>         On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck
> <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>             Hi Rikke,
>             I understand your frustration but I really strongly feel
> that locked
>             donation box solution is not a good solution, the project
> would be harmed
>             considerably. There is a very strong part of Noisebridge
> which is against
>             locking anything within the community. In this case I
> think that distance
>             doesn't matter, another solution should be applied.
>             I do not know strategies what are the current Tastebridge
> strategies to
>             accumulate resources and I've not seen any numbers being
> published recently
>             of how do we do but based on previous experience:
>             - the Tuesday member dinner worked fine and donations
> were collected and
>             counted directly so no problem there, just leave few
> dollars in the box
>             ($1-10)
>             - the underground markets are hard to prepare for but it
> is an amazing way
>             how to get resources too and again fully controlled with
> no strings attached
>             - other option which helped before is send an email to
> the community to ask
>             for resources for the brewing program to continue (I can do
> that)
>             - of course taking out money on regular bases should work
> fine if some one
>             is around to do so. I bet someone trusty even not
> affiliated to Tastebridge
>             would do it. Again leaving $1-10 in the donation box and
> having the donation
>             box on as much stable position worked fine for months.
>             I'm sending this to you in person so you can think about
> that. If you go
>             this way you will loose more than you gain and I'll have
> to comment on this
>             because this was, is and will be one of the fundamental
> principles behind
>             Tastebridge - open as much as possible. People who
> supported Tastebridge in
>             the past are mostly strongly against the locking
> solutions. I know that very
>             well and yes I'm one of them too and there are very
> strong reasons for that.
>             So please try to take care about that in a different
> manner I do not have a
>             problem to write to some folks to try to get some
> resources. Once the
>             ingredients are bought they last quite a while if managed
> well. I think the
>             major problem is the money management, someone has to be
> "treasurer" for
>             Tastebridge and really take care about it. I'm using
> Tastebridge as a
>             concept where ever I go and it works but it is not easy
> sometimes but I
>             deeply feel it is worth it.
>             If it happens that Tastebridge in Noisebridge will become
> inactive that is
>             life. I'll and many others will be sorry but I'll
> continue to promote the
>             idea somewhere else and I'll revive it once in San
> Francisco again it will
>             take just a little bit longer than if it was kept running.
>             Best of luck and enjoy the "painful thorns" of the beauty
> of the open
>             movement :-))
>             Sincerely,
>             Frantisek
>             PS I'm going to post very short note asking you to
> reconsider, if you want
>             post this email that is absolutely fine do so preferably
> to both lists.
>             ------------------------------
>             *From:* Rikke Rasmussen <rikke.c.rasmussen at gmail.com>
>             *To:* Tastebridge <tastebridge at lists.noisebridge.net>;
>             noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net;
> biobridge at lists.noisebridge.net
>             *Sent:* Thu, April 21, 2011 9:01:46 AM
>             *Subject:* [Noisebridge-discuss] The Mystery of the
> Disappearing Donations
>             Hey people,
>             Amanda and I have bottled yet another batch of kombucha
> for y'all to enjoy
>             - they're currently sitting on the Tastebridge shelf,
> awaiting refrigeration
>             tomorrow.
>             Am much dismayed to note, however, that the Tastebridge
> donation jar (the
>             small screw top one we keep our funds in) currently
> contains only $9.00 (6
>             of which were put in tonight, and down from ~$35.00 on
> Monday night) -
>             nowhere near enough to replenish our almost depleted
> stock of tea and sugar
>             (base ingredients). This basically means that we've got
> barely enough for
>             another batch, and won't be able to make any more unless
> money magically
>             reappears. I'll immediately take the (painful!) step of
> putting a locked box
>             in the fridge for kombucha donations - anyone who feels
> they should have a
>             key can ask me for one.
>             Sorry folks, but this really sucks. Please help me make
> sure this doesn't
>             happen again.
>             /Rikke
> _______________________________________________
> Tastebridge mailing list
> Tastebridge at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tastebridge
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