[Build] agreed, and a few budget notes was Re: Electrical Tracing Party
jim
jim at well.com
Sat Aug 29 17:23:56 UTC 2009
wrt the 1 1/4" pipe run on the ceiling: we'll almost
certainly have to make some hops over existing pipes.
i suggest we purchase 22 degree bends and assemble
them, four for each hop. Neil: looks like you've got
1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch benders, but no 1 1/4 inch bender,
yes?
On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 08:52 -0700, neil maclean wrote:
> Yes to your understanding Shannon and to Jim's clarifications and
> additions.
>
> The good news that we got from looking more closely into the existing
> runs on Thursday night is that there are 1 inch runs currently feeding
> the overhead tracks that can be repurposed and that already extend to
> many of the areas we want to install distribution panels.
> Specifically, there is a feed to one of the tracks that is near to the
> new location for the shop. Another that is about 6 feet from the front
> southern corner. There is another very near to the area that was going
> to be the shop in the old plan, currently the storage room for
> electrical gear.
> We can drop sub panels off of these existing feeds fairly cheaply. We
> can also pull the #6 wire out of some of the other pipes and reuse it in
> these short extensions to the new sub panels. What I think this means is
> that we can get sub panels well distributed to all of the places we want
> them fairly cheaply, pretty much for the price of the panel boxes plus
> about $80 in pipe and fittings.
>
> The major exception is the run to the kitchen. There we are basically
> stuck. The problem is that the plumbing comes in at one end of the
> building and the electrical comes in at the other and the kitchen needs
> both. That run is going to cost about a $1,000, ($500 in wire.) And
> there is no way to avoid it and still have an electric kitchen and laundry.
>
> I had originally thought that these sub panel runs would cost about
> $2,000, but now think we can do that for closer to $1,400.
>
> Once these distribution panels (sometimes referred to as trunks) are in
> place the branch circuits can be installed over time, as need and money
> demands, with only local disruption of the space.
>
> Neil
>
>
> jim wrote:
> > comments interspersed:
> >
> > On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 00:34 -0700, Shannon Lee wrote:
> >
> >> So if I'm understanding correctly, the current plan is:
> >>
> >> * Run 1.25" conduit from the Front panel back the kitchen, and run
> >> cable through it
> >>
> > JS: yes (but not "cable", rather "wires").
> >
> >
> >> * Run 1.25" conduit from the Front panel to the shop, and run cable
> >> through it
> >>
> > JS: no. run 1" and take it from an existing 1" run, extending
> > the existing branch and diverting it from powering a track to
> > feeding a small sub-panel ("wires" not "cable").
> >
> >
> >> * Install a sub-panel at the kitchen
> >>
> > JS: yes.
> >
> >
> >> * Install a sub-panel in the shop
> >>
> > JS: yes, but a small one.
> >
> >
> >> * Make local runs & outlets in the shop and in the kitchen
> >>
> > JS: yes, a few at first.
> >
> >
> >> * Put the Front panel back together
> >>
> > JS: buy an identical panel and rip out its guts to
> > replace the guts of the existing front panel, which
> > shows serious damage to its busses.
> >
> >
> >> * Trace out and label the runs from the Front panel.
> >>
> > JS: progress has already been made on this.
> >
> >> This is, I understand, a completely simplistic writeup of a set of
> >> complex tasks, but I want to get a handle on what needs to be done.
> >>
> > JS: latest tentatively agreed-upon plans include
> > diverting a second 1" pipe run from another track
> > to power a second small sub-panel somewhere "over
> > there".
> > the idea of two smaller sub-panels is primarily
> > to re-purpose existing #6 wire rather than buying
> > new wire and pipe for entirely new runs, and
> > secondarily to distribute power capability across
> > the space--we can tap sub-panels for power as we
> > decide in the future.
> >
> >> If you look at the current, All New! taped out layout of the walls, it
> >> puts the shop very close by the Rear panel, which would make for an
> >> easy run.
> >>
> >> Do we really need 3-phase? I understand that it's there in the front
> >> panel, and we'd be silly to rip it out, but is this something we could
> >> leave as a future possibility rather than something we're doing now?
> >>
> > JS: yes, no. we cannot easily later put in three-
> > phase. three-phase requires four wires, correctly
> > sized pipe, and a three-phase sub-panel. Neil's run.
> > plan is to use the "stinger" leg of the three-
> > phase to power the oven and cooktop, possibly
> > some other devices.
> > if we install the usual split-phase panel, we
> > pretty much forever dismiss using three-phase and
> > we miss using the available power of the third leg.
> >
> >> I'll be in the space tomorrow and Sunday; I may be working on walls
> >> with Zed or I may be free to help out with Electrical, if either of
> >> you are around.
> >>
> >> --S
> >>
> >> PS, I think we should name our panels after Chinese deistic entities.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:26 PM, neil maclean <neil at warmcove.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> I just got off the phone with Jim and we made some decisions
> >> that I really like.
> >>
> >> I oing to bring a rolling scaffold tonight and would like help
> >> getting it up the stairs and set up in the space. The scaffold
> >> can help us trace circuits and later to install pipe and wire.
> >>
> >> I would like to create a plan tonight. If we finish the
> >> circuit tracing, we can make decisions about how to re-purpose
> >> them, take them out, or use them as they are.
> >>
> >> It would be great if one to three people could work with me on
> >> Friday, (Jim is going to get the materials in the morning and
> >> then come back later in the afternoon.)
> >> I could use help most of the day doing stuff like carrying
> >> things around, handing it up the scaffold, rolling the
> >> scaffold, opening boxes, tracing circuits, pulling wires, and
> >> fastening pipe. If anyone wants to, I could also share some
> >> basics about how to bend pipe, (its not really that hard.)
> >>
> >> I would like to start early Friday, like 8 or 9 in the
> >> morning. My goal is to get the biggest run, the one to the
> >> bathroom/laundry/kitchen finished and the one to the shop at
> >> least figured out and began.
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Shannon Lee wrote:
> >>
> >> Hey All,
> >>
> >> Tonight at 7:00, a bunch of people are getting
> >> together at 2169 to admire the floor, and to give a go
> >> at finishing off the cable tracing -- we need to
> >> figure out where all the breakers go.
> >>
> >> The front box is all taken apart, and we won't be able
> >> to use the breakers themselves to trace out -- so
> >> bring tracing equipment! I know I've got a tone
> >> generator and tracer kit, it's not clear to me whether
> >> it's suitable for tracing AC as well as low-voltage
> >> cable; Jim recommends a battery and a voltmeter -- we
> >> have a couple of voltmeters, so if you have batteries
> >> suitable for this sort of adventure, be sure to bring
> >> them along.
> >>
> >> See you all there,
> >>
> >> --S
> >>
> >> --
> >> Shannon Lee
> >> (503) 539-3700
> >>
> >> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable
> >> from science."
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Build mailing list
> >> Build at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/build
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> They further concluded that at least 8 detainees in US custody
> >> were tortured to death. Steven Miles, reporting in this
> >> journal, put the number of deaths due to torture at 17, with
> >> 11 cases occurring in Iraq and 6 occurring in Afghanistan.[8]
> >> <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355#R8> Many of these deaths involved torture or abuse related to harsh interrogations of the detainees by US personnel.
> >>
> >> from: Public Medical Records Central: a free library of Life
> >> Science Journals
> >> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355
> >>
> >> --
> >> "The crimes of the US throughout the world have been
> >> systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully
> >> documented but nobody talks about them"
> >> Harold Pinter, who died on Dec. 25th, 2008
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Shannon Lee
> >> (503) 539-3700
> >>
> >> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> They further concluded that at least 8 detainees in US custody were
> tortured to death. Steven Miles, reporting in this journal, put the
> number of deaths due to torture at 17, with 11 cases occurring in Iraq
> and 6 occurring in Afghanistan.[8]
> <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355#R8>
> Many of these deaths involved torture or abuse related to harsh
> interrogations of the detainees by US personnel.
>
> from: Public Medical Records Central: a free library of Life Science
> Journals
> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355
>
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