[Build] agreed, and a few budget notes was Re: Electrical Tracing Party
neil maclean
neil at warmcove.org
Sat Aug 29 15:52:56 UTC 2009
Yes to your understanding Shannon and to Jim's clarifications and
additions.
The good news that we got from looking more closely into the existing
runs on Thursday night is that there are 1 inch runs currently feeding
the overhead tracks that can be repurposed and that already extend to
many of the areas we want to install distribution panels.
Specifically, there is a feed to one of the tracks that is near to the
new location for the shop. Another that is about 6 feet from the front
southern corner. There is another very near to the area that was going
to be the shop in the old plan, currently the storage room for
electrical gear.
We can drop sub panels off of these existing feeds fairly cheaply. We
can also pull the #6 wire out of some of the other pipes and reuse it in
these short extensions to the new sub panels. What I think this means is
that we can get sub panels well distributed to all of the places we want
them fairly cheaply, pretty much for the price of the panel boxes plus
about $80 in pipe and fittings.
The major exception is the run to the kitchen. There we are basically
stuck. The problem is that the plumbing comes in at one end of the
building and the electrical comes in at the other and the kitchen needs
both. That run is going to cost about a $1,000, ($500 in wire.) And
there is no way to avoid it and still have an electric kitchen and laundry.
I had originally thought that these sub panel runs would cost about
$2,000, but now think we can do that for closer to $1,400.
Once these distribution panels (sometimes referred to as trunks) are in
place the branch circuits can be installed over time, as need and money
demands, with only local disruption of the space.
Neil
jim wrote:
> comments interspersed:
>
> On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 00:34 -0700, Shannon Lee wrote:
>
>> So if I'm understanding correctly, the current plan is:
>>
>> * Run 1.25" conduit from the Front panel back the kitchen, and run
>> cable through it
>>
> JS: yes (but not "cable", rather "wires").
>
>
>> * Run 1.25" conduit from the Front panel to the shop, and run cable
>> through it
>>
> JS: no. run 1" and take it from an existing 1" run, extending
> the existing branch and diverting it from powering a track to
> feeding a small sub-panel ("wires" not "cable").
>
>
>> * Install a sub-panel at the kitchen
>>
> JS: yes.
>
>
>> * Install a sub-panel in the shop
>>
> JS: yes, but a small one.
>
>
>> * Make local runs & outlets in the shop and in the kitchen
>>
> JS: yes, a few at first.
>
>
>> * Put the Front panel back together
>>
> JS: buy an identical panel and rip out its guts to
> replace the guts of the existing front panel, which
> shows serious damage to its busses.
>
>
>> * Trace out and label the runs from the Front panel.
>>
> JS: progress has already been made on this.
>
>> This is, I understand, a completely simplistic writeup of a set of
>> complex tasks, but I want to get a handle on what needs to be done.
>>
> JS: latest tentatively agreed-upon plans include
> diverting a second 1" pipe run from another track
> to power a second small sub-panel somewhere "over
> there".
> the idea of two smaller sub-panels is primarily
> to re-purpose existing #6 wire rather than buying
> new wire and pipe for entirely new runs, and
> secondarily to distribute power capability across
> the space--we can tap sub-panels for power as we
> decide in the future.
>
>> If you look at the current, All New! taped out layout of the walls, it
>> puts the shop very close by the Rear panel, which would make for an
>> easy run.
>>
>> Do we really need 3-phase? I understand that it's there in the front
>> panel, and we'd be silly to rip it out, but is this something we could
>> leave as a future possibility rather than something we're doing now?
>>
> JS: yes, no. we cannot easily later put in three-
> phase. three-phase requires four wires, correctly
> sized pipe, and a three-phase sub-panel. Neil's run.
> plan is to use the "stinger" leg of the three-
> phase to power the oven and cooktop, possibly
> some other devices.
> if we install the usual split-phase panel, we
> pretty much forever dismiss using three-phase and
> we miss using the available power of the third leg.
>
>> I'll be in the space tomorrow and Sunday; I may be working on walls
>> with Zed or I may be free to help out with Electrical, if either of
>> you are around.
>>
>> --S
>>
>> PS, I think we should name our panels after Chinese deistic entities.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:26 PM, neil maclean <neil at warmcove.org>
>> wrote:
>> I just got off the phone with Jim and we made some decisions
>> that I really like.
>>
>> I oing to bring a rolling scaffold tonight and would like help
>> getting it up the stairs and set up in the space. The scaffold
>> can help us trace circuits and later to install pipe and wire.
>>
>> I would like to create a plan tonight. If we finish the
>> circuit tracing, we can make decisions about how to re-purpose
>> them, take them out, or use them as they are.
>>
>> It would be great if one to three people could work with me on
>> Friday, (Jim is going to get the materials in the morning and
>> then come back later in the afternoon.)
>> I could use help most of the day doing stuff like carrying
>> things around, handing it up the scaffold, rolling the
>> scaffold, opening boxes, tracing circuits, pulling wires, and
>> fastening pipe. If anyone wants to, I could also share some
>> basics about how to bend pipe, (its not really that hard.)
>>
>> I would like to start early Friday, like 8 or 9 in the
>> morning. My goal is to get the biggest run, the one to the
>> bathroom/laundry/kitchen finished and the one to the shop at
>> least figured out and began.
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>>
>> Shannon Lee wrote:
>>
>> Hey All,
>>
>> Tonight at 7:00, a bunch of people are getting
>> together at 2169 to admire the floor, and to give a go
>> at finishing off the cable tracing -- we need to
>> figure out where all the breakers go.
>>
>> The front box is all taken apart, and we won't be able
>> to use the breakers themselves to trace out -- so
>> bring tracing equipment! I know I've got a tone
>> generator and tracer kit, it's not clear to me whether
>> it's suitable for tracing AC as well as low-voltage
>> cable; Jim recommends a battery and a voltmeter -- we
>> have a couple of voltmeters, so if you have batteries
>> suitable for this sort of adventure, be sure to bring
>> them along.
>>
>> See you all there,
>>
>> --S
>>
>> --
>> Shannon Lee
>> (503) 539-3700
>>
>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable
>> from science."
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> They further concluded that at least 8 detainees in US custody
>> were tortured to death. Steven Miles, reporting in this
>> journal, put the number of deaths due to torture at 17, with
>> 11 cases occurring in Iraq and 6 occurring in Afghanistan.[8]
>> <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355#R8> Many of these deaths involved torture or abuse related to harsh interrogations of the detainees by US personnel.
>>
>> from: Public Medical Records Central: a free library of Life
>> Science Journals
>> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355
>>
>> --
>> "The crimes of the US throughout the world have been
>> systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully
>> documented but nobody talks about them"
>> Harold Pinter, who died on Dec. 25th, 2008
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Shannon Lee
>> (503) 539-3700
>>
>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
>>
>
>
>
--
They further concluded that at least 8 detainees in US custody were
tortured to death. Steven Miles, reporting in this journal, put the
number of deaths due to torture at 17, with 11 cases occurring in Iraq
and 6 occurring in Afghanistan.[8]
<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355#R8>
Many of these deaths involved torture or abuse related to harsh
interrogations of the detainees by US personnel.
from: Public Medical Records Central: a free library of Life Science
Journals
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355
--
"The crimes of the US throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but nobody talks about them"
Harold Pinter, who died on Dec. 25th, 2008
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