[Build] Fwd: [Noisebridge-discuss] The electricians are coming! (today between 4 and 5pm)
jim
jim at well.com
Sun May 4 04:21:04 UTC 2014
Thank you for your tho'ts, Sean.
It is more likely, in a hacker space, that power
loss will result from someone's misuse of a tool
or an experimental something powered from
a receptacle. I think much more likely.
The choice of only black for receptacles and
red for all else (yes, the colors map to the sub-
panel) is to make an easy, visible convention for
whoever might hack the electricity.
The loss of an entire side (either red or black)
is unlikely compared to the (still unlikely) loss of
power of a single branch. There are two sub-
panels fed from the basement shutoffs, one
three-phase, the other split phase. Each has
breakers to control many separate branches.
It would be an easy pull to get a black-white
pair to the ceiling to ensure against the risk you
describe.
In a hacker space, there is some likelihood
that someone will want 220 and grab any red
and any black to get it (the current wiring will
accommodate that). Of course that's improper,
and a hacker may not know that 220 should be
controlled by a two pole breaker. There's no
reliable control of what hackers might do, only
education-training may help. May be a sign or
two would help.
The sub-panel in the dirty shop is three-phase
and should be suitable for 220 applications.
Someone can install a two pole breaker in any
of the sub-panels in the space, the easiest being
that on the west portion of the south wall and
that in the dirty shop and that in the kitchen area
(which is a mess currently).
On 05/02/2014 10:16 PM, Sean Glang wrote:
> I'm mostly a lurker, and don't even got to the space with any kind of
> regularity, so feel free to disregard what I have to say.
>
> However, I am a state licensed electrician.
>
> It's a bad idea to put all the lights on one phase (which is hopefully
> what all the red wires are) and all the plugs on a different phase.
>
> Two reasons come to mind. One: if there should ever be a power outage
> on one phase, you might lose all the lights. (Though this is unlikely)
> Two: someone might want power for a 220v machine some time. You need
> separate phases for that, and you should NEVER run separate phases
> with the same color wire. IMHO, that's how someone will die/start a
> fire/do other bad things.
>
> That's just my two cents though, Neil and Tim probably also have input.
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jim's own list of identified problems with NB's electrical infrastructure.
>>
>> I'm guessing there is some overlap with what you guys took down, Neil and Tim.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: jim <jim at well.com>
>> Date: Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] The electricians are coming! (today
>> between 4 and 5pm)
>> To: maestro <maestro415 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Noisebridge-discuss <Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> (thank you, Maestro)
>>
>> To whoever is in charge,
>>
>> Please forward the short list of eggrecences below
>> to the electricians; it specifies some things that
>> they may initially miss:
>>
>> South wall west : 1/2" pipe from sub-panel and
>> perhaps four square boxes need proper straps
>> and anchors.
>>
>> West wall center : receptacle boxes and pipe
>> feeding them need proper straps and anchors.
>>
>> North wall west : sub-panel fed from floor
>> internal bus should be screwed tight; cover
>> needs proper screws; one of the multiple breakers
>> has a broken breaker (I recall it's the 100 A
>> breaker that controls the kitchen sub-panel).
>>
>> North wall Turing, center of room, floor : junction
>> box is open; there is a red, white, and black
>> (supplied by the sub-panel at the top of the
>> stairwell) that can be used for the Church
>> classroom--that will need a 1/2" pipe from the
>> floor box to a new junction box in the Church
>> classroom: pair red and black with a single white,
>> use red for lights and black for receptacles.
>>
>> Kitchen sub-panel (supplied by 100A three-pole
>> breaker in the north-west sub-panel) : the kitchen
>> sub-panel is a mess inside; pipes coming out of it
>> to the south wall of the sinks should be properly
>> offset or supported as well as properly strapped
>> and anchored.
>>
>> Generally okay (as I recall):
>> * most of the Turing wall and ceiling work
>> * most of the DJ booth work
>> * work for both toilet rooms
>> * all of the darkroom
>> * most of the pipes on the ceiling
>> * most of the work in the dirty shop
>> I.e. no hidden problems.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/02/2014 12:05 PM, maestro wrote:
>>
>> A perfect example of an EXCELLENT person NB has lost due to all the
>> bullshit @ the house.
>>
>> Thank you jim for all your work to the space electrically, the money
>> you have put into it in multiple ways, teaching, and sharing in
>> attempts to foster positive DO-ocracy and a positive freely creative
>> environment...
>>
>> Message ends
>> ________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 2, 2014, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>> I did some (not all) of the work to adjust
>>> from the previous tenant's needs to Noisebridge's
>>> needs.
>>> Because the space is a hacker space, it
>>> seemed (and seems) to me that there should
>>> be particular consistency in the wiring, given
>>> that hackers have the courage to get into
>>> stuff they don't understand until after they
>>> have gotten in:
>>> * black wires are used to power receptacles
>>> * red wires are used to power lights and
>>> appliances
>>> * blue wires indicate the "third leg" of the
>>> three phase sub-panels.
>>>
>>> The idea is that hackers may trip breakers
>>> from time to time. Especially at night, it's a
>>> bad idea that lights go out if a breaker trips--
>>> a matter of safety.
>>> Please convey this idea to the electricians.
>>> Note that in some circumstances, the
>>> electrical code specifies that lights not share
>>> breakers with receptacles. What I tried to do
>>> was to extend this principle to the entire space
>>> (again, as a matter of safety).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/02/2014 12:20 AM, Naomi Most wrote:
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>>
>>>> Electricians Neil and Tim came by earlier. They were quite thorough,
>>>> took pictures and notes, and asked a lot of questions about usage.
>>>>
>>>> They seemed to feel there weren't any major scary things wrong, but
>>>> there were many minor nicks and cuts that we should probably patch up.
>>>>
>>>> They're going to make up a list of "red flag" and "yellow flag" items
>>>> and give us rough estimates for costs to fix. They know we'll want to
>>>> fix lots of things ourselves, too, so they're keeping that in mind.
>>>>
>>>> I also wrote down a list of electrical to-do items based on their
>>>> observations that we can definitely do ourselves. I'll post that
>>>> tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, a bunch of folks would like to start coordinating on physical
>>>> space maintenance and improvements on a separate mailing list. I
>>>> propose using Build:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/build
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Naomi
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Henner Zeller <h.zeller at acm.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 1 May 2014 14:22, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> There are two C-10 certified electricians coming to Noisebridge in a few hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll be there to walk through the space and note their comments. I'll
>>>>>> report back to this list on their findings.
>>>>> Thanks for getting this sorted and investing your time walking them through.
>>>>>
>>>>> H.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't worry: today there is no money being spent or committed to be
>>>>>> spent. This is a free consultation to help us decide how to address
>>>>>> the city's concerns about our safety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Naomi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>>>
>>>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>> --
>>
>> ~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>> _______________________________________________
>> Build mailing list
>> Build at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/build
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