Chemical safety (was: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] darkroom at the noisebridge space)

Fri Oct 3 21:30:47 UTC 2008

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Mark Cohen <markc at binaryfaith.com> wrote:
> Comments in line :
>
> On Oct 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Seth David Schoen wrote:
>
>> Audrey Penven writes:
>>
>>> We'll need to figure out the details of each chemical process that
>>> will happen in the space.  I imagine that some of them will be
>>> compatible, use the same chemicals, and otherwise coexist nicely.
>>> Some of them, not so much.  We can make sure to have a bunch of trays
>>> on hand, labeled with the chemical bath they can hold.
>>>
>>> As far as disposal goes - regular developer and stop baths can be
>>> mixed together and poured down the drain safely.  Fixer needs more
>>> care.  I believe that Rayko takes used fixer and recycles it for a
>>> fee.  I'll find out the details of this.
>>
>> This reminds me of safety questions that I had about both the darkroom
>> and chemistry lab.  I guess that the same safety questions apply to each
>> since each will be using some chemicals that may have safety concerns.
>> So I think I'll take this opportunity to write up all the safety
>> questions that I've thought about so far:
>>
>> (1) segregation of chemicals and food
>>
>> We have some food preparation space and a stove that people are
>> apparently planning to use on occasion for preparing and eating in the
>> space.  What do we need to do to minimize the risk that the food
>> preparation space becomes contaminated with materials used for chemistry
>> or photographic work?  (One particular issue is about the sink, which
>> I'll break out into another point:)
>>
>
> Though black and white chemistry is not especially toxic, (Developer is not
> classified as toxic but often is an allergic compound for some, causing skin
> irritation, stop bath (usually Glacial Acetic Acid), and fixer (Sodium,
> Potassium or Ammonium Thiosulfate is fine when fresh, but contains high
> amounts of silver when used and soluble silver will make you look like a
> smurf) The biggest concerns would be with toners. Selenium toner is
> extremely dangerous and needs to be handled with great care. As with all
> things, general common sense and keeping food away is smart.
>
> Here is the Kodak MSDS site.
> http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=4648&pq-locale=en_US&_requestid=1925
>
> Obviously, this is for basic B&W.
>
> Color chemistry is significantly more harmful and alternative processes even
> more. (For example Daguerrotypes were developed in Mercury Oxide vapor, the
> vapor is even worse for you than drinking the stuff.)
>

I've never used toners, so I'm not familiar with the safety
requirements for them.  If you've used them before, and plan on
bringing them to the space, it would be great if you could help the
rest of us do it safely.  :)
Rayko Photo Center (3rd + Harrison) disposes of Selenium with a fee
per ounce.  If we use it, we'll need to store it properly and then
bring it over there to get rid of it.

Regarding skin irritation: I've never had a problem with that and
therefore hadn't thought of it.  It would be a good idea to have
gloves (reusable or a box of disposable latex) to use in the darkroom.

>
>> (2) safe storage and disposal of chemicals
>>
>> What do we need to do to ensure that we store and dispose of chemicals
>> safely?  If the kitchen sink is going to be used for food preparation
>> and washing dishes, it should probably not be used for chemical disposal
>> even for some chemicals that could otherwise legally be disposed of this
>> way.  Should we install a separate sink or other facilities for chemical
>> disposal or washing glassware and photo trays?
>>
>
> The only chemical you are required to handle properly in disposal is fixer.
> Both Developer and Stop can be dumped down drains. Large amounts of Fixer
> can't and the city regularly tests the disposed water for high amounts of
> fixer/silver salts.
>
> You can safely pour dev/stop down into a toilet.
>
> Some photolabs allow people to dispose of used fixer on their premises for a
> fee. Similar to waste motor oil.. Or you can pay safety clean (sp?) to
> dispose of it for you.

I'm pretty sure that Rayko will also take used fixer.  I'll ask next
time I go over there (probably later today).

>
>> (3) ventilation
>>
>> Meredith has been working on planning a fume hood for chemistry work.
>> Does the darkroom also need special ventilation arrangements in order
>> to protect people working there (or elsewhere in the space)?
>>
>> What prevents fumes captured by the fume hood from exiting back into
>> the space through the kitchen stove vent intake?
>>
>> Does the fishbowl room or other parts of the space require particular
>> ventilation for safety apart from the fume hood?  (Especially if
>> particular equipment ... like soldering irons ... may produce various
>> kinds of fumes.)
>>
>
> Film development can be done out of a darkroom. The tanks are (hopefully)
> light tight. The only exception is for those developing 4x5 or larger where
> you use an open tub and hangers. For standard roll development no
> ventilation is necessary.
>
> For developing paper (i.e. prints) a ceiling fan (bathroom style) would be
> more than adequate.
>
> Toning should be done out of the darkroom and in fresh air.
>
>
>> (4) training
>>
>> Further to a note on Talk:Safety by Shannon Clark, should there be some
>> kind of training or briefing that people have to do before they can
>> start using particular materials or equipment?  (This applies to _all_
>> tools and equipment in the space, not just chemicals!)  Shannon wrote:
>>
>>  a thought, should we have some system akin to how TechShop handles
>>  letting people use certain types of tools (i.e. in our case chemistry,
>>  perhaps the darkroom, perhaps soldering tools) of only after they have
>>  taken a course on Safety and Basic Usage (which in TechShop's case is
>>  usually 1hr long)? --Shannonclark 23:42, 1 October 2008 (PDT)
>
> I would be more than happy to give trainings/classes.
>
> Previously to being a systems admin, my professional career was working at
> pro photo labs in southern california, my degree is in photography from
> CCA(c) and I used to volunteer with Harvey Milk Photo Center. :)
>
> Mark
>

Very cool!  I'm happy that you're also willing to teach.  :)

>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Seth David Schoen <schoen at loyalty.org> | Wol dir, werlt, daz du bist
>>    http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/   | also freudenriche!
>>    http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/     |           -- Carmina Burana
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>