Chemical safety (was: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] darkroom at the noisebridge space)

Sat Oct 4 01:00:18 UTC 2008

   is there a way to reclaim the silver? 
i'm interested in silver plating. 

On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 14:13 -0700, Mark Cohen wrote:
> Comments in line :
> 
> On Oct 3, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Seth David Schoen wrote:
> 
> > Audrey Penven writes:
> >
> >> We'll need to figure out the details of each chemical process that
> >> will happen in the space.  I imagine that some of them will be
> >> compatible, use the same chemicals, and otherwise coexist nicely.
> >> Some of them, not so much.  We can make sure to have a bunch of trays
> >> on hand, labeled with the chemical bath they can hold.
> >>
> >> As far as disposal goes - regular developer and stop baths can be
> >> mixed together and poured down the drain safely.  Fixer needs more
> >> care.  I believe that Rayko takes used fixer and recycles it for a
> >> fee.  I'll find out the details of this.
> >
> > This reminds me of safety questions that I had about both the darkroom
> > and chemistry lab.  I guess that the same safety questions apply to  
> > each
> > since each will be using some chemicals that may have safety concerns.
> > So I think I'll take this opportunity to write up all the safety
> > questions that I've thought about so far:
> >
> > (1) segregation of chemicals and food
> >
> > We have some food preparation space and a stove that people are
> > apparently planning to use on occasion for preparing and eating in the
> > space.  What do we need to do to minimize the risk that the food
> > preparation space becomes contaminated with materials used for  
> > chemistry
> > or photographic work?  (One particular issue is about the sink, which
> > I'll break out into another point:)
> >
> 
> Though black and white chemistry is not especially toxic, (Developer  
> is not classified as toxic but often is an allergic compound for some,  
> causing skin irritation, stop bath (usually Glacial Acetic Acid), and  
> fixer (Sodium, Potassium or Ammonium Thiosulfate is fine when fresh,  
> but contains high amounts of silver when used and soluble silver will  
> make you look like a smurf) The biggest concerns would be with toners.  
> Selenium toner is extremely dangerous and needs to be handled with  
> great care. As with all things, general common sense and keeping food  
> away is smart.
> 
> Here is the Kodak MSDS site. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=4648&pq-locale=en_US&_requestid=1925
> 
> Obviously, this is for basic B&W.
> 
> Color chemistry is significantly more harmful and alternative  
> processes even more. (For example Daguerrotypes were developed in  
> Mercury Oxide vapor, the vapor is even worse for you than drinking the  
> stuff.)
> 
> 
> > (2) safe storage and disposal of chemicals
> >
> > What do we need to do to ensure that we store and dispose of chemicals
> > safely?  If the kitchen sink is going to be used for food preparation
> > and washing dishes, it should probably not be used for chemical  
> > disposal
> > even for some chemicals that could otherwise legally be disposed of  
> > this
> > way.  Should we install a separate sink or other facilities for  
> > chemical
> > disposal or washing glassware and photo trays?
> >
> 
> The only chemical you are required to handle properly in disposal is  
> fixer. Both Developer and Stop can be dumped down drains. Large  
> amounts of Fixer can't and the city regularly tests the disposed water  
> for high amounts of fixer/silver salts.
> 
> You can safely pour dev/stop down into a toilet.
> 
> Some photolabs allow people to dispose of used fixer on their premises  
> for a fee. Similar to waste motor oil.. Or you can pay safety clean  
> (sp?) to dispose of it for you.
> 
> > (3) ventilation
> >
> > Meredith has been working on planning a fume hood for chemistry work.
> > Does the darkroom also need special ventilation arrangements in order
> > to protect people working there (or elsewhere in the space)?
> >
> > What prevents fumes captured by the fume hood from exiting back into
> > the space through the kitchen stove vent intake?
> >
> > Does the fishbowl room or other parts of the space require particular
> > ventilation for safety apart from the fume hood?  (Especially if
> > particular equipment ... like soldering irons ... may produce various
> > kinds of fumes.)
> >
> 
> Film development can be done out of a darkroom. The tanks are  
> (hopefully) light tight. The only exception is for those developing  
> 4x5 or larger where you use an open tub and hangers. For standard roll  
> development no ventilation is necessary.
> 
> For developing paper (i.e. prints) a ceiling fan (bathroom style)  
> would be more than adequate.
> 
> Toning should be done out of the darkroom and in fresh air.
> 
> 
> > (4) training
> >
> > Further to a note on Talk:Safety by Shannon Clark, should there be  
> > some
> > kind of training or briefing that people have to do before they can
> > start using particular materials or equipment?  (This applies to _all_
> > tools and equipment in the space, not just chemicals!)  Shannon wrote:
> >
> >   a thought, should we have some system akin to how TechShop handles
> >   letting people use certain types of tools (i.e. in our case  
> > chemistry,
> >   perhaps the darkroom, perhaps soldering tools) of only after they  
> > have
> >   taken a course on Safety and Basic Usage (which in TechShop's case  
> > is
> >   usually 1hr long)? --Shannonclark 23:42, 1 October 2008 (PDT)
> 
> I would be more than happy to give trainings/classes.
> 
> Previously to being a systems admin, my professional career was  
> working at pro photo labs in southern california, my degree is in  
> photography from CCA(c) and I used to volunteer with Harvey Milk Photo  
> Center. :)
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Seth David Schoen <schoen at loyalty.org> | Wol dir, werlt, daz du bist
> >     http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/   | also freudenriche!
> >     http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/     |           -- Carmina Burana
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