[Noisebridge-discuss] [drama] Noisebridge has a (potentially)newcommunication medium: The Noisebridge ning network!

davidfine d at vidfine.com
Mon Dec 21 05:56:41 UTC 2009


 I'm on a couple other Nings, I even admin a group with over 1000 members.
And yet they're all totally stagnant because it's just not useful. Go ahead
and try, I just don't see it gaining traction. And for that reason, I
couldn't care if you call yourself the "prince bishop of Noisebridge" on
Ning. In fact, you should do that.
 --D

 On Sun 20/12/09 9:25 PM , "Christie Dudley" longobord at gmail.com sent:
 1) It sounds like a run-around as to your identity.  It isn't that big a
deal, but if you want any credibility, you have to, uh, have credibility. 
Unless you're one of us, you're not one of us, and don't expect us to
respond as if you are.

 2) We've discussed bulletin boards in the past and decided we didn't want
to use them.  (Check the archives.)  It seems to me that the discussion
of actually wanting or needing a bulletin board is something that should
precede the discussion of the tool we use to solve the problem, rather than
the other way around.  And also be separate from it.

 3) If we accomplish that and decided we wanted to have a bulletin board,
why should we use this particular bulletin board system instead of FOSS? 
There are many open source bulletin boards out there.  This is an
important question that we address (sometimes with great drama) before we
use one of these services.

 Christie
_______
 Getting to the bottom of the hill is convenient. The view from the top of
the hill is stunning. Where would you choose to live?

 On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Noise Bridge  wrote:
  you couldn't be more wrong.

 "What person would want Noisebridge to use Ning so bad that they
 created a Gmail user account of "noisebridgening" just for that
 purpose?"

 anonymity. there's no difference between making an email called
'noisebridgening' and 'david von somethingorother'. it shouldn't matter who
i am. if you look at the platform yourself you'll see there's no way to
harvest any interesting information from any of the members save for a most
likely junk email address. even if i WERE working for noisebridge the only
gain i could really get is money from the ads, which don't generate
anything if no one clicks on them. so don't click on them. the only reason
they're still on the site is because i don't have 25 bucks to put down
every month to get rid of them. esp. considering there's not even anyone
trying this thing before complaining about it to have any incentive to take
them off. i don't even think anyone made a junk network to see what's
behind the curtain. i'd rather people actually try the medium first before
complaining how it's useless and won't help.

 and like i said before. i'm perfectly willing to talk to the BoD, tell
them who i am, and grant them full admin access to the website so there's
at least someone you know who's managing the site. i only wish to keep my
name out of it because in the chance this whole exploit goes sour with the
community i'd rather that bad taste not stick in peoples mouths should i
ever try to suggest an idea or project. it shouldn't matter who made it.
what matters is that it helps foster ideas and collaboration. i have
absolutely nothing to gain in the success of this network except the
knowledge that i contributed something to the community. 

 On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Ariel Waldman  wrote:
  Trying to be constructive with my thoughts on this and offer advice.

 I honestly think you're a viral marketer (it takes one to know one - I
 used to work at an ad agency for 8 years, during which the idea of
 viral marketing hit a peak). You conceal your identity and never
 confirm or deny association with the client. All of your behaviors and
 responses fit right in line with it: do the research, infiltrate a
 community and make an effort to appear human/caring. I don't doubt
 that you've been to Noisebridge a couple times, but that doesn't vouch
 for your occupation.

 What person would want Noisebridge to use Ning so bad that they
 created a Gmail user account of "noisebridgening" just for that
 purpose? I think many of us respect and understand the need for
 anonymity in situations, but in a small community built on trust, at
 least having pseudonymity is important so that you can be vouched for.
 Additionally, if you want to preach about Ning, you could have (or
 still can) suggest leading an in-person event/workshop about it, which
 would help build more trust than suspicion. And, if, in fact, Ning is
 a client of yours, transparency of your involvement would go a longer
 way than than your current approach.

 Maybe this advice won't change how you interact with this community,
 but hopefully it will for any future mailing list communities you're
 setting up gmail accounts for.

 Ariel Waldman | digital anthropologist

 [ http://arielwaldman.com [1] | http://spacehack.org [2] ]

 ------------------------------------------------
 [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge has a (potentially) newcommunication
 medium: The Noisebridge ning network!
 Noise Bridge noisebridgening at gmail.com [3]
 Sun Dec 20 01:58:12 PST 2009

 Ok so here are the concerns so far:

 google ads: i kinda covered this at the end of the long spiel on the ning
 site itself (
 http://noisebridge.ning.com/forum/topics/the-noisebridge-nings-purpose
[4] ).
 the ads are automatic. i don't get any money. ning does. you actually
have
 to pay a premium ($24.95/mo) if you wanna take the ads off. i know, it
 sucks, but that's probably why the site is free to use in the first place

 source code: free doesn't always mean open source unfortunately. There
are
 tools to do advanced layout/widget tweaking within the site but i donno
if
 you can get the base code or whatever. honestly i couldn't code my way
out
 of a paper bag so I'm basically sticking to the preset stuff unless
someone
 wants to take a stab at it (there are various 'rank' options that let you
 add people to fiddle with different aspects of the site, one of many is
 appearance). as much as I'm sure all of you would like open source it's
not
 something i could do even if i had it (see: can't code worth shit). also
 generally any open source stuff is very hard do-it-yourself and generally
 (though maybe I'm wrong) isn't hosted for free.

 censorship concerns: i just read the article. it seems to have a problem
 with the vagueness between 'sexual awareness/educational content' and
 'pornographic content'. unless you guys are going to form a dildo molding
 workshop or a BDSM how-to i don't think this will be too much of a
problem.
 yes, it's a problem, but not one i see noisebridge touching onto too
much.

 Why the ning? because I'm familiar with it. I've had close to 2 years
 interacting with others on a few of these networks and i know it to be a
 conducive environment for sharing ideas and organizing events and
projects
 (hell, Improv Everywhere has a ning, as well as 'chocolate rain' Tay
Zonday
 if you can believe it.) and i spent a few months of those years with
basic
 moderator controls. during those years a wide range of topics were
 discussed, some not exactly legal, and we've NEVER had a problem with
ning
 stepping in and saying' whoa whoa you can't do that'. in fact a few of
our
 members of that network were in contact with many of the developers while
we
 were working out the kinks and features of the platform. I'm sure i could
 manage to pull those contact strings if anything were to happen. It's
easy,
 it's free, it's familiar and I'm a simple internetter with no money who
 doesn't know a whole hell of a lot about setting up a personally hosted
open
 source forum. if this is a do-ocracy, and you find something better, than
 please, by all means, open up that medium for use. I'm just trying to
 provide the best i can on my abilities and hope people are able to use
it.

 now about my identity. well i donno how that fits in really. in any
system
 there's always going to be a small number or people (sometimes just one)
who
 stands as a cornerstone on which the system remains available. this goes
for
 youtube, bing, facebook, etc. the only difference between those systems
and
 this one is that though i could give the creator account password to
someone
 else it'd raise the risk of that password being given to a 3rd party for
 which i have no knowledge and putting the entire system at risk. I
 understand the concerns about having a faceless entity running the show
but
 please try to trust that i wouldn't put the effort into something like
this,
 present it to you, and defend it, if i was just going to pull it out from
 under your feet once people started using it. Concerning my 'tenure' at
 Noisebridge I've been there a number of times. I'm not there every day
but i
 was there before it moved to the current space and i'm planning on
working
 on some projects there as soon as i find the time. If it matters at all
I'm
 fairly well acquainted with a number of 'regulars'.

 But in the end this isn't about me. I'm just the one putting initiative
to
 get this thing working (do-ocracy and all that). the rest is up to you.
if
 you want someone who you know and trust with controls then, like i said
in
 the link above, I'm fully willing to grant full admin powers to one of
the
 'board of directors' or anyone else you deem worthy enough via popular
 demand to have such powers. the only additional power i have is the
ability
 to grant and withdraw other admin's and to delete the site as a whole
(and
 to pay for premium additions to the site if it comes to it).

 so what do i hope to achieve with this? collaboration. sharing. quick,
easy,
 interaction between people online where they can share their ideas and
work
 on problems together. it's merely an additional medium along side the
 mailing list, the IRC channel, and the Wiki. It's not a replacement to
any
 of them, it's an enhancement to the whole. The more ways we can share the
 better. don't like the ning platform? don't use it. or even better, find
 something superior and put the effort into making that flourish. don't
trust
 me or the kind of power my account holds? allow me to create positions of
 power only a smaller notch below mine to run the show. hell I'd be glad
to
 simply contribute and leave the internal tinkering to those more capable.
 wanna know what the platform is capable of instead of taking my word for
it?
 make your own and see for yourself.

 the way i figure it: you have a lot to gain if you contribute and very
 little to lose. please a least give it a try.

 On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:53 AM, Lee Sonko lee.org [5]> wrote:

 >  I would have a very hard time putting effort into using a medium
that's
 > controlled by an anonymous, unaccountable party. It puts the medium on
very
 > shakey ground.
 >
 > Lee
 >
 >

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Links:
------
[1] http://arielwaldman.com
[2] http://spacehack.org
[3] http://gmail.com
[4] http://noisebridge.ning.com/forum/topics/the-noisebridge-nings-purpose
[5] http://lee.org
[6] https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
[7]
http://webmail.sonic.net/parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
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