[Noisebridge-discuss] [drama] Noisebridge has a (potentially) newcommunication medium: The Noisebridge ning network!

[Noise Bridge]

Re 1) excuse me? 'one of us'? sorry but there IS no 'one of us'. There's
just EVERYONE. sorry if you mistook NB as a club house but that's not how
things work. anyone can come in and do anything they want. no one should
have to be 'established' or something to present an idea. some people are
flakes, sure, but i think it's pretty dumb to judge an idea or project based
on your unfamiliarity with a person. if you like it, participate, and if it
turns out the person wasn't that into the idea to keep it going, oh well.

that aside...again, if you must insist, I can only assume the BoD's have
'credibility' with the community, right? if i meet with them and talk about
it and add them on as admins or at least get them to voice their OK on my
earnestness will people drop the whole 'omg we donno who you are' thing?
because it honestly doesn't matter in the least who i am. it doesn't matter
who made it. what matters is what's done with it. i really didn't think
people would be so paranoid about such a non issue. If i didn't already know
who the noisebridge co-founders were i frankly don't care who created it in
the first place (though i'm thankful they did). what i care about is that it
exists and that i can contribute to it.


Re 2) & 3) check the archives? you mean download two years worth of mailing
list logs and word find 'forum' until i come to the right thread granted
that i'm even in the right mailing list to begin with? boy a search function
would be mighty helpful right now. i'm sorry but this all just seems like a
lot of talk and not a whole lot of do.

"I propose we form a committee to determine whether or not we should think
about implementing this system or a variation thereof. But first we should
vote on whether or not we should even do THAT."
"Can't someone just make it and then we can figure out if we like it or not
after trying it?"
"no. we're going to talk about it at length."

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>wrote:

> 1) It sounds like a run-around as to your identity.  It isn't that big a
> deal, but if you want any credibility, you have to, uh, have credibility.
> Unless you're one of us, you're not one of us, and don't expect us to
> respond as if you are.
>
> 2) We've discussed bulletin boards in the past and decided we didn't want
> to use them.  (Check the archives.)  It seems to me that the discussion of
> actually wanting or needing a bulletin board is something that should
> precede the discussion of the tool we use to solve the problem, rather than
> the other way around.  And also be separate from it.
>
> 3) If we accomplish that and decided we wanted to have a bulletin board,
> why should we use this particular bulletin board system instead of FOSS?
> There are many open source bulletin boards out there.  This is an important
> question that we address (sometimes with great drama) before we use one of
> these services.
>
>
> Christie
> _______
> Getting to the bottom of the hill is convenient. The view from the top of
> the hill is stunning. Where would you choose to live?
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Noise Bridge <noisebridgening at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> you couldn't be more wrong.
>>
>>
>> "What person would want Noisebridge to use Ning so bad that they
>> created a Gmail user account of "noisebridgening" just for that
>> purpose?"
>>
>> anonymity. there's no difference between making an email called
>> 'noisebridgening' and 'david von somethingorother'. it shouldn't matter who
>> i am. if you look at the platform yourself you'll see there's no way to
>> harvest any interesting information from any of the members save for a most
>> likely junk email address. even if i WERE working for noisebridge the only
>> gain i could really get is money from the ads, which don't generate anything
>> if no one clicks on them. so don't click on them. the only reason they're
>> still on the site is because i don't have 25 bucks to put down every month
>> to get rid of them. esp. considering there's not even anyone trying this
>> thing before complaining about it to have any incentive to take them off. i
>> don't even think anyone made a junk network to see what's behind the
>> curtain. i'd rather people actually try the medium first before complaining
>> how it's useless and won't help.
>>
>> and like i said before. i'm perfectly willing to talk to the BoD, tell
>> them who i am, and grant them full admin access to the website so there's at
>> least someone you know who's managing the site. i only wish to keep my name
>> out of it because in the chance this whole exploit goes sour with the
>> community i'd rather that bad taste not stick in peoples mouths should i
>> ever try to suggest an idea or project. it shouldn't matter who made it.
>> what matters is that it helps foster ideas and collaboration. i have
>> absolutely nothing to gain in the success of this network except the
>> knowledge that i contributed something to the community.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Ariel Waldman <ariel at arielwaldman.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Trying to be constructive with my thoughts on this and offer advice.
>>>
>>> I honestly think you're a viral marketer (it takes one to know one - I
>>> used to work at an ad agency for 8 years, during which the idea of
>>> viral marketing hit a peak). You conceal your identity and never
>>> confirm or deny association with the client. All of your behaviors and
>>> responses fit right in line with it: do the research, infiltrate a
>>> community and make an effort to appear human/caring. I don't doubt
>>> that you've been to Noisebridge a couple times, but that doesn't vouch
>>> for your occupation.
>>>
>>> What person would want Noisebridge to use Ning so bad that they
>>> created a Gmail user account of "noisebridgening" just for that
>>> purpose? I think many of us respect and understand the need for
>>> anonymity in situations, but in a small community built on trust, at
>>> least having pseudonymity is important so that you can be vouched for.
>>> Additionally, if you want to preach about Ning, you could have (or
>>> still can) suggest leading an in-person event/workshop about it, which
>>> would help build more trust than suspicion. And, if, in fact, Ning is
>>> a client of yours, transparency of your involvement would go a longer
>>> way than than your current approach.
>>>
>>> Maybe this advice won't change how you interact with this community,
>>> but hopefully it will for any future mailing list communities you're
>>> setting up gmail accounts for.
>>>
>>> Ariel Waldman | digital anthropologist
>>>
>>> [ http://arielwaldman.com | http://spacehack.org ]
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>> [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge has a (potentially) newcommunication
>>> medium: The Noisebridge ning network!
>>> Noise Bridge noisebridgening at gmail.com
>>> Sun Dec 20 01:58:12 PST 2009
>>>
>>> Ok so here are the concerns so far:
>>>
>>> google ads: i kinda covered this at the end of the long spiel on the ning
>>> site itself (
>>> http://noisebridge.ning.com/forum/topics/the-noisebridge-nings-purpose).
>>> the ads are automatic. i don't get any money. ning does. you actually
>>> have
>>> to pay a premium ($24.95/mo) if you wanna take the ads off. i know, it
>>> sucks, but that's probably why the site is free to use in the first place
>>>
>>> source code: free doesn't always mean open source unfortunately. There
>>> are
>>> tools to do advanced layout/widget tweaking within the site but i donno
>>> if
>>> you can get the base code or whatever. honestly i couldn't code my way
>>> out
>>> of a paper bag so I'm basically sticking to the preset stuff unless
>>> someone
>>> wants to take a stab at it (there are various 'rank' options that let you
>>> add people to fiddle with different aspects of the site, one of many is
>>> appearance). as much as I'm sure all of you would like open source it's
>>> not
>>> something i could do even if i had it (see: can't code worth shit). also
>>> generally any open source stuff is very hard do-it-yourself and generally
>>> (though maybe I'm wrong) isn't hosted for free.
>>>
>>> censorship concerns: i just read the article. it seems to have a problem
>>> with the vagueness between 'sexual awareness/educational content' and
>>> 'pornographic content'. unless you guys are going to form a dildo molding
>>> workshop or a BDSM how-to i don't think this will be too much of a
>>> problem.
>>> yes, it's a problem, but not one i see noisebridge touching onto too
>>> much.
>>>
>>> Why the ning? because I'm familiar with it. I've had close to 2 years
>>> interacting with others on a few of these networks and i know it to be a
>>> conducive environment for sharing ideas and organizing events and
>>> projects
>>> (hell, Improv Everywhere has a ning, as well as 'chocolate rain' Tay
>>> Zonday
>>> if you can believe it.) and i spent a few months of those years with
>>> basic
>>> moderator controls. during those years a wide range of topics were
>>> discussed, some not exactly legal, and we've NEVER had a problem with
>>> ning
>>> stepping in and saying' whoa whoa you can't do that'. in fact a few of
>>> our
>>> members of that network were in contact with many of the developers while
>>> we
>>> were working out the kinks and features of the platform. I'm sure i could
>>> manage to pull those contact strings if anything were to happen. It's
>>> easy,
>>> it's free, it's familiar and I'm a simple internetter with no money who
>>> doesn't know a whole hell of a lot about setting up a personally hosted
>>> open
>>> source forum. if this is a do-ocracy, and you find something better, than
>>> please, by all means, open up that medium for use. I'm just trying to
>>> provide the best i can on my abilities and hope people are able to use
>>> it.
>>>
>>> now about my identity. well i donno how that fits in really. in any
>>> system
>>> there's always going to be a small number or people (sometimes just one)
>>> who
>>> stands as a cornerstone on which the system remains available. this goes
>>> for
>>> youtube, bing, facebook, etc. the only difference between those systems
>>> and
>>> this one is that though i could give the creator account password to
>>> someone
>>> else it'd raise the risk of that password being given to a 3rd party for
>>> which i have no knowledge and putting the entire system at risk. I
>>> understand the concerns about having a faceless entity running the show
>>> but
>>> please try to trust that i wouldn't put the effort into something like
>>> this,
>>> present it to you, and defend it, if i was just going to pull it out from
>>> under your feet once people started using it. Concerning my 'tenure' at
>>> Noisebridge I've been there a number of times. I'm not there every day
>>> but i
>>> was there before it moved to the current space and i'm planning on
>>> working
>>> on some projects there as soon as i find the time. If it matters at all
>>> I'm
>>> fairly well acquainted with a number of 'regulars'.
>>>
>>> But in the end this isn't about me. I'm just the one putting initiative
>>> to
>>> get this thing working (do-ocracy and all that). the rest is up to you.
>>> if
>>> you want someone who you know and trust with controls then, like i said
>>> in
>>> the link above, I'm fully willing to grant full admin powers to one of
>>> the
>>> 'board of directors' or anyone else you deem worthy enough via popular
>>> demand to have such powers. the only additional power i have is the
>>> ability
>>> to grant and withdraw other admin's and to delete the site as a whole
>>> (and
>>> to pay for premium additions to the site if it comes to it).
>>>
>>> so what do i hope to achieve with this? collaboration. sharing. quick,
>>> easy,
>>> interaction between people online where they can share their ideas and
>>> work
>>> on problems together. it's merely an additional medium along side the
>>> mailing list, the IRC channel, and the Wiki. It's not a replacement to
>>> any
>>> of them, it's an enhancement to the whole. The more ways we can share the
>>> better. don't like the ning platform? don't use it. or even better, find
>>> something superior and put the effort into making that flourish. don't
>>> trust
>>> me or the kind of power my account holds? allow me to create positions of
>>> power only a smaller notch below mine to run the show. hell I'd be glad
>>> to
>>> simply contribute and leave the internal tinkering to those more capable.
>>> wanna know what the platform is capable of instead of taking my word for
>>> it?
>>> make your own and see for yourself.
>>>
>>> the way i figure it: you have a lot to gain if you contribute and very
>>> little to lose. please a least give it a try.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:53 AM, Lee Sonko <lee at lee.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> >  I would have a very hard time putting effort into using a medium
>>> that's
>>> > controlled by an anonymous, unaccountable party. It puts the medium on
>>> very
>>> > shakey ground.
>>> >
>>> > Lee
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
>
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