[Noisebridge-discuss] mercury on the table?

[Sai Emrys]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Alex Perez<aperez at alexperez.com> wrote:
> Correct. It was clearly mishandled, the person resonsible should be ashamed
> of themselves (they probably secretly are, presuming they know/suspect they
> were indeed the likely source/cause of the Mercury),

IMHO, this is not the most helpful approach. Whoever it was probably
already feels bad about it. I prefer to focus on responsibility and
how to fix / prevent things than blame. Whoever it was is irrelevant
to NB as an organization; the take-away is that we were not prepped
for this kind of emergency.

(Another thing to add to that list of supplies might be a gas mask w/
mercury vapor filters?)

One question that I have: does anyone have access to a mercury vapor /
surface test kit (e.g. http://www.azic.com/inst_j405.aspx)?

I would like to have some way to conclusively verify that the space
has in fact been cleaned up (and that there isn't, e.g., a bead of
mercury somewhere in the floor that's still putting off dangerous
vapor).

(This is no attack on Jeffrey et al who did their best to clean it up,
but let's be honest, they ain't a professional hazmat team, they're
just normal hackers trying to do their best. Trust-but-verify is
standard practice in this kind of situation, for me at least.)

For those of you who don't think this is a big deal: the LC50 in other
animals is less than 1 mg / L concentration - that's very little,
considering that a thermometer has .5-3 *g*. It's undetectable by
humans, does not cause irritation, has no smell, etc. It causes
significant health effects even in those tiny doses.

If you aren't familiar with the health, legal, and safety implications
of the stuff you hack, and both willing and able to take
responsibility to handle 'em, you shouldn't be doing it at all, let
alone where what you do affects the rest of us. As a group, we can
help with two of those: information and ability (in both tools and
skills). But we can't do much directly about willingness; hopefully
that's just part of a culture of "being excellent".

I've called SFPD to ask for info regarding testing and disposal,
expecting a call back later.

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Jeffrey Malone<ieatlint at tehinterweb.com> wrote:
> I was there and participated in its cleanup.  I feel absolutely
> confident that we successfully cleaned the area as per guidelines
> readily found online.

Re. disposal: what exactly was done with the mercury itself, and with
any stuff used to clean it up? Hopefully it was not put in the trash,
as that's both illegal and dangerous; it's required to be handed over
to the hazmat people so they can handle it. I suspect you didn't do
so.

> As such, I don't regard it as any type of
> deception -- there's more mercury at the fish stands at fisherman's
> warf than on the table at noisebridge.

I don't think anyone claimed deception.

> It was a freak accident. [...]  Inevitably, with a hackerspace as we have, we run the
> risk of exposure to hazardous materials like this.

I think you have a broken definition of "accident", as the above two
statements are absolutely contradictory to me.

An accident, IMHO, is something that you can neither predict nor prevent.

This is neither of those, as even you agree (saying that it's "inevitable").

FWIW: this is almost exactly identical to arguments I've heard from
other (IMHO, irresponsible) riders. They'll say, e.g., that they
lowsided in a "freak accident" (e.g. they were going too fast in a
curve when they hit gravel), and that therefore they got road rash
('cause of course they were wearing jeans and a sweatshirt). Well, no:
they were riding too fast for their skill and the road surface, and
they failed to prepare for the very predictable case of them
eventually biting asphalt.

Yes, it happens to even very skilled people - just more rarely, 'cause
there are fewer things that they aren't prepared to deal with. And
even in those cases, the way they dress for it on a day to day basis
assumes the worst case (i.e. that they'll go down), not the best, and
as a result, they can *have* such an accident and walk away from it
with nothing more than a busted turn light and chafed bar ends.

>  the moment the mercury was detected, everyone at
> the space reacted calmly and logically to research how to properly
> clean the area.  We did not have all the materials needed, and
> Jonathan Moore quickly went to Walgreens to get them as others cleaned
> while wearing latex gloves.

That part is good - though I should point out that Walgreens doesn't
stock sulphur powder, last I checked. ;-)

> If we were working with mercury, or any hazardous material, I'd agree
> that that would not be a freak accident.

This does not mesh with what you said above - that exposure to these
kinds of hazardous materials is "inevitable" (because, presumably, in
a hackerspace like this we *do* work with such materials).

> Either way, we lack evidence of any kind to investigate it further
> than it already has been.

TBD pending info from SFFD regarding testing for remnants.

>  Accusations without due proof, and witch  hunts in general are not excellent.

Fully agreed. Per my previous, I feel the only helpful thing to do
here is to review our training and material, and ensure that such
"inevitable accidents" are well within our ability to handle easily
and properly.

- Sai