[Noisebridge-discuss] mercury on the table?

[Jacob Appelbaum]

> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Jacob Appelbaum<jacob at appelbaum.net> wrote:
>>> An accident, IMHO, is something that you can neither predict nor prevent.
>> Unless you broke it or were there, how can you say that this event
>> wasn't an accident?
> 
> Very simple: it's only an accident if you view it in an extremely
> narrow perspective (e.g. sure, the person didn't *mean* to break
> whatever it was).

I'm not sure that I agree with you.

> 
> If you view it as "stuff that happens when you do hardware hacking",
> it's not an accident, it's a predictable occurrence, and should be
> treated that way. Eventually someone or other will break a vial of
> nasty shit, get solder in places it shouldn't be, etc. It's our job as
> a group to make sure that the setup is such that that is unlikely to
> happen (by having good training, workspaces, etc - which I think we
> do), and that when it does, we handle it with ease.

I think of it as what *may* happen when you have a largely unregulated
environment (often with lots of strangers).

> 
> If you talk to cops (or traffic safety people), you'll note that they
> don't believe in "vehicular accidents" - because they see a bunch of
> 'em, and they see the commonalities of where people could have
> prevented or ameliorated them by behaving more responsibly. I happen
> to agree with this perspective.
> 

I've never met a police officer that didn't believe in the concept of
innocent bystander harmed by those very same drivers.

Additionally, many investigators wait until there are at least minimal
facts collected before passing judgment.

> Please note: I am not contrasting "accidental" to "intentional", but
> to "predictable". Nobody claims malice, just that both the spill and
> the inability to clean it up properly ASAP was avoidable.
> 

Huh, I really couldn't have predicted that someone would spill a large
amount of mercury in Noisebridge, let alone on a big table and then
leave it there.

Probably, someone didn't even notice that they broke something with
mercury; perhaps they didn't realize that they even had an object with
mercury in it!

Generally, we try not to solve problems before they happen.
Additionally, we try to do our best to fix things when they break. This
is part of why we didn't have all of those chemicals for dealing with
mercury, we've never encountered this type of issue before.

It's worth noting that while we probably could have prepared for a
mercury spill, it's also worth noting that we can't possible be prepared
for *everything* that will *possibly* happen at Noisebridge. We try to
take measured risks and prepare for things that we can actually plan for.

Part of what makes Noisebridge so wonderful is that we're not a group
covered with red tape! Also, red tape won't help if it really is an
accident or if it's malicious.

There are probably lots of things that Noisebridge could be better
prepared for.

Frankly, while I look forward to the semi-nation state formation in the
spirit of Fristaden Christiania, I don't think it's going to happen
without a concerted effort. Until then, we'll solve problems as they
arise. We generally try not to solve problems before they happen. This
is a pretty core concept with Noisebridge.

I'm pretty happy with the response from Jeffery and Jonathan. They saw
an issue and they undertook an effort to clean it up. They did some
research and while it's probably not perfect, in the spirit of
Noisebridge, it's possible to iterate on what they've done if you think
it imperfect. This might be in the form of raising an issue at the
Tuesday meeting, it might be by calling someone who can test the space, etc.

Best,
Jake