[Noisebridge-discuss] Open EEG project underway at my house

Tracy Jacobs kinetical at comcast.net
Wed Mar 18 00:13:03 UTC 2009


Hey!  I'm so happy to hear that someone there wants to work on the  
open EEG.  I started an ambitious interactive kinetic sculpture  
project with the open EEG as the input, several years ago.  The EEG is  
working already.  I made Pedro's electrodes and I can't recommend  
them.  I did run into the noise problems like Jonathan was talking  
about, and it was discouraging.  They are pretty bad, and the signal  
did seem fairly random.  Better electrodes would definitely help. I  
don't think that the data may ever be what I want it to be but I would  
be happy to continue working on it.  Miitch helped me too, and he has  
seen other people with EEG's that were used for all sorts of  
interesting things.  I know he could be helpful with the challenges  
remaining but I think he's pretty busy!  Personally, I have no idea  
how to translate the data into anything at all, being a very bad  
engineer....
But I'd be happy to work with your group and maybe learn more and come  
up with something showable.  I want to drive motors with it to move  
different kinetic animals that correspond to different brain states.   
Sound and or video applications are also interesting!

Tracy


On Mar 17, 2009, at 2:26 PM, noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net 
  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Machine Learning Meetup: making our neuron	smarter! (Josh Myer)
>   2. BAtrans transhumanism meeting Sunday 3/22 (Daniel Packer)
>   3. Re: openeeg (Jonathan Foote)
>   4. Re: openeeg (Meredith L. Patterson)
>   5. Re: openeeg (Mikael Vejdemo Johansson)
>   6. Re: openeeg (Vlad Spears)
>   7. Tonight: DJing and Music Composition on Linux	(BALUG)
>      (Jesse Zbikowski)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:32:02 -0700
> From: Josh Myer <josh at joshisanerd.com>
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Machine Learning Meetup: making our
> 	neuron	smarter!
> To: NoiseBridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>,
> 	noisebridge-announce at lists.noisebridge.net
> Message-ID: <20090317203200.GQ8034 at wilmington.dreamhost.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Wednesday nights at 8PM, we do a session on machine learning at 83c.
> Last week, we had a hands-on workshop, and by the end of the night,
> everyone left with their very own baby neuron.
>
> This week, we'll be taking these baby neurons and making them a little
> bit smarter.  By generalizing, we'll set ourselves up to build a
> proper neural network from scratch this month, and get a better
> understanding of how simple interactions can yield complex results.
>
> You can check out our results at
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Machine_Learning_Meetup_Notes:_2009-03-11
>
> As with last session, there's a small bit of homework: glance through
> your code!  We'll quickly review the ideas at the beginning of the
> night, then move on to the new stuff.  I might need to assign new
> people to work with people who were here last week at first, so be
> ready to explain how a perceptron evaluates input and a quick overview
> of the training process.  (And if you weren't here last time, have a
> look at that wiki page: there are perceptrons in python, ruby, matlab,
> mathematica, C, and, yes, even LISP.  There's also a tutorial linked
> from the notes page.)
>
> The goals for this week are:
> * talk about overfitting in the training set
> * refactor to continuous inputs and outputs
> * (hopefully) change from a linear basis to sigmoids
>
> I'm looking forward to seeing everyone there!
> -- 
> Josh Myer   650.248.3796
>  josh at joshisanerd.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:35:44 -0700
> From: Daniel Packer <dp at danielpacker.org>
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] BAtrans transhumanism meeting Sunday
> 	3/22
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Message-ID:
> 	<6da7b18f0903171335j4beba8a5lde4d3eff956a213e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi all,
>
> The Bay Area chapter of the World Transhumanist Association will be
> meeting in SF (on Sanchez near Castro) from 6pm to 9pm this coming
> Sunday, March 22nd. This will be a free-form meeting with an open
> discussion and some snacks and drinks. Transhumanism tends to overlap
> a bit with the hacker ethos, so I thought I would forward this along.
>
> For more information on transhumanism see:
> http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/
>
> You can subscribe to the BAtrans mailing list at:
> http://www.transhumanism.org/mailman/listinfo/batrans
>
> If you're interested in attending, please RSVP with me by email and I
> will send you the address. I will be giving a Five Minutes of Fame
> talk on transhumanism this Thursday, so you can find out more then, as
> well.
>
> -Daniel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:00:11 -0700
> From: Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] openeeg
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Message-ID:
> 	<51518c590903171400l5c41dca4t791cf95d09244aff at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Judging by some of this traffic, I think people have misconsceptions
> regarding EEGs and would do well to read up on it a bit. EEGs are not
> a "brain jack." You are not going to control anything reliably, and
> even detecting anything is hard. (Yes, you've seen the monkey move the
> robot arm video. That's not EEG: that measured specific neural regions
> using electrodes inserted through a hole in the skull.)
>
> At best, you can measure the energy in the various bands (alpha, beta,
> etc.) with pro EEG gear and (lots of) good electrodes. How and whether
> this correlates with particular mental activities or emotions is still
> an open research question. With practice, you can likely change your
> alpha/beta ratio but it's going to take the better part of a minute if
> you can do it at all.  And noise and muscle movements (e.g. blinking)
> will give you 10x the signal of anything going on in the brain.
>
> I don't mean to say that this isn't an excellent thing to be
> interested in or to hack on, just that it's much easier to get your
> expectations up than it is to get anything actually working -- see
> Emotiv as an example of hype vs. reality.
>
> Art projects using the EEG like Kal's robot or the Monochrom drink
> machine are cool and fun, but they basically use EEG as a glorified
> random noise source. It would be excellent to do something better.
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Vlad Spears  
> <spears at 2secondfuse.com> wrote:
>>> Al Billings wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jake has mentioned some interest in hacking openeeg. This has been
>>>> discussed here before.
>>>>
>>>> Other than him and I, who else is interested in this kind of  
>>>> project?
>>
>>
>> I'd definitely like to work on an OpenEEG project.  I've considered  
>> building
>> my own several times in the past, but thought I would give Emotiv a  
>> bit more
>> time to reach the market.  My end goal would be to use the stream  
>> of data to
>> guide musical machinery in Max/MSP, Pd and bridged DAW environments  
>> using
>> OSC or MIDI.
>>
>> I bet I can make my brain sound like drum 'n' bass.
>>
>> Vlad
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 22:33:34 +0100
> From: "Meredith L. Patterson" <mlp at thesmartpolitenerd.com>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] openeeg
> To: Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>
> Cc: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Message-ID: <49C0172E.2090104 at thesmartpolitenerd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I dunno, reading Vlad's post, it sounds more like he'd be writing
> scripts that read in time-domain data and translate that into music.
> Automatic music generation is pretty interesting, and you can often  
> get
> something that even sounds like music once you find a pattern in the
> original source. Think of it as "audialization" rather than  
> "visualization".
>
> I'd be interested to hear what different people's brains "sound"  
> like in
> various conditions. A friend is getting my husband an OpenEEG for his
> birthday, so when that gets here, one of the things I want to play
> around with is just mapping the serial output to a tone generator in
> various ways -- linear or geometric translations to something
> human-audible, operations on derivatives of the curve described by the
> serial output, I dunno. It's math. Sometimes it sounds like things.
>
> --mlp
>
> Jonathan Foote wrote:
>> Judging by some of this traffic, I think people have misconsceptions
>> regarding EEGs and would do well to read up on it a bit. EEGs are not
>> a "brain jack." You are not going to control anything reliably, and
>> even detecting anything is hard. (Yes, you've seen the monkey move  
>> the
>> robot arm video. That's not EEG: that measured specific neural  
>> regions
>> using electrodes inserted through a hole in the skull.)
>>
>> At best, you can measure the energy in the various bands (alpha,  
>> beta,
>> etc.) with pro EEG gear and (lots of) good electrodes. How and  
>> whether
>> this correlates with particular mental activities or emotions is  
>> still
>> an open research question. With practice, you can likely change your
>> alpha/beta ratio but it's going to take the better part of a minute  
>> if
>> you can do it at all.  And noise and muscle movements (e.g. blinking)
>> will give you 10x the signal of anything going on in the brain.
>>
>> I don't mean to say that this isn't an excellent thing to be
>> interested in or to hack on, just that it's much easier to get your
>> expectations up than it is to get anything actually working -- see
>> Emotiv as an example of hype vs. reality.
>>
>> Art projects using the EEG like Kal's robot or the Monochrom drink
>> machine are cool and fun, but they basically use EEG as a glorified
>> random noise source. It would be excellent to do something better.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Vlad Spears  
>> <spears at 2secondfuse.com> wrote:
>>>> Al Billings wrote:
>>>>> Jake has mentioned some interest in hacking openeeg. This has been
>>>>> discussed here before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than him and I, who else is interested in this kind of  
>>>>> project?
>>>
>>> I'd definitely like to work on an OpenEEG project.  I've  
>>> considered building
>>> my own several times in the past, but thought I would give Emotiv  
>>> a bit more
>>> time to reach the market.  My end goal would be to use the stream  
>>> of data to
>>> guide musical machinery in Max/MSP, Pd and bridged DAW  
>>> environments using
>>> OSC or MIDI.
>>>
>>> I bet I can make my brain sound like drum 'n' bass.
>>>
>>> Vlad
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:58:51 -0700
> From: Mikael Vejdemo Johansson <mik at stanford.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] openeeg
> To: Meredith L. Patterson <mlp at thesmartpolitenerd.com>
> Cc: Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>,
> 	noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Message-ID: <4BB93F7C-1C1A-4606-B7FD-19A222B5EE58 at stanford.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Mar 17, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Meredith L. Patterson wrote:
>> I dunno, reading Vlad's post, it sounds more like he'd be writing
>> scripts that read in time-domain data and translate that into music.
>> Automatic music generation is pretty interesting, and you can often
>> get
>> something that even sounds like music once you find a pattern in the
>> original source. Think of it as "audialization" rather than
>> "visualization".
>>
>
> Sonification is the term used by the geeks in that particular  
> area. :-)
>
>> I'd be interested to hear what different people's brains "sound"
>> like in
>> various conditions. A friend is getting my husband an OpenEEG for his
>> birthday, so when that gets here, one of the things I want to play
>> around with is just mapping the serial output to a tone generator in
>> various ways -- linear or geometric translations to something
>> human-audible, operations on derivatives of the curve described by  
>> the
>> serial output, I dunno. It's math. Sometimes it sounds like things.
>>
>
> Sounds like stuff you could have fun with!
>
>> --mlp
>>
>> Jonathan Foote wrote:
>>> Judging by some of this traffic, I think people have misconsceptions
>>> regarding EEGs and would do well to read up on it a bit. EEGs are  
>>> not
>>> a "brain jack." You are not going to control anything reliably, and
>>> even detecting anything is hard. (Yes, you've seen the monkey move
>>> the
>>> robot arm video. That's not EEG: that measured specific neural
>>> regions
>>> using electrodes inserted through a hole in the skull.)
>>>
>>> At best, you can measure the energy in the various bands (alpha,
>>> beta,
>>> etc.) with pro EEG gear and (lots of) good electrodes. How and
>>> whether
>>> this correlates with particular mental activities or emotions is
>>> still
>>> an open research question. With practice, you can likely change your
>>> alpha/beta ratio but it's going to take the better part of a minute
>>> if
>>> you can do it at all.  And noise and muscle movements (e.g.  
>>> blinking)
>>> will give you 10x the signal of anything going on in the brain.
>>>
>>> I don't mean to say that this isn't an excellent thing to be
>>> interested in or to hack on, just that it's much easier to get your
>>> expectations up than it is to get anything actually working -- see
>>> Emotiv as an example of hype vs. reality.
>>>
>>> Art projects using the EEG like Kal's robot or the Monochrom drink
>>> machine are cool and fun, but they basically use EEG as a glorified
>>> random noise source. It would be excellent to do something better.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Vlad Spears
>>> <spears at 2secondfuse.com> wrote:
>>>>> Al Billings wrote:
>>>>>> Jake has mentioned some interest in hacking openeeg. This has  
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> discussed here before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than him and I, who else is interested in this kind of
>>>>>> project?
>>>>
>>>> I'd definitely like to work on an OpenEEG project.  I've
>>>> considered building
>>>> my own several times in the past, but thought I would give Emotiv
>>>> a bit more
>>>> time to reach the market.  My end goal would be to use the stream
>>>> of data to
>>>> guide musical machinery in Max/MSP, Pd and bridged DAW
>>>> environments using
>>>> OSC or MIDI.
>>>>
>>>> I bet I can make my brain sound like drum 'n' bass.
>>>>
>>>> Vlad
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
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> Mikael Vejdemo Johansson, Dr.rer.nat
> Postdoctoral researcher
> mik at math.stanford.edu
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:13:08 -0700
> From: Vlad Spears <spears at 2secondfuse.com>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] openeeg
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Message-ID: <B160AA6C-C3CE-438D-8A45-A0B88EEBBE42 at 2secondfuse.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I may have given the wrong impression to some with my remark about
> drum 'n' bass.  I've done some reading, Jonathan.  Yes, part of my
> interest is exactly what Meredith describes.  I'd also like to see if
> I can guide the parameters of generative musical apps in various slow
> moving ways.  I think filtering, compressing or limiting the data
> could provide interesting and usable control.
>
> I'm quite happy with muscle movements as part of the event set, too,
> but my goals for excellence may not align with yours.
>
> Vlad
>
>
> On Mar 17, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Meredith L. Patterson wrote:
>
>> I dunno, reading Vlad's post, it sounds more like he'd be writing
>> scripts that read in time-domain data and translate that into music.
>> Automatic music generation is pretty interesting, and you can often
>> get
>> something that even sounds like music once you find a pattern in the
>> original source. Think of it as "audialization" rather than
>> "visualization".
>>
>> I'd be interested to hear what different people's brains "sound"
>> like in
>> various conditions. A friend is getting my husband an OpenEEG for his
>> birthday, so when that gets here, one of the things I want to play
>> around with is just mapping the serial output to a tone generator in
>> various ways -- linear or geometric translations to something
>> human-audible, operations on derivatives of the curve described by  
>> the
>> serial output, I dunno. It's math. Sometimes it sounds like things.
>>
>> --mlp
>>
>> Jonathan Foote wrote:
>>> Judging by some of this traffic, I think people have misconsceptions
>>> regarding EEGs and would do well to read up on it a bit. EEGs are  
>>> not
>>> a "brain jack." You are not going to control anything reliably, and
>>> even detecting anything is hard. (Yes, you've seen the monkey move
>>> the
>>> robot arm video. That's not EEG: that measured specific neural
>>> regions
>>> using electrodes inserted through a hole in the skull.)
>>>
>>> At best, you can measure the energy in the various bands (alpha,
>>> beta,
>>> etc.) with pro EEG gear and (lots of) good electrodes. How and
>>> whether
>>> this correlates with particular mental activities or emotions is
>>> still
>>> an open research question. With practice, you can likely change your
>>> alpha/beta ratio but it's going to take the better part of a minute
>>> if
>>> you can do it at all.  And noise and muscle movements (e.g.  
>>> blinking)
>>> will give you 10x the signal of anything going on in the brain.
>>>
>>> I don't mean to say that this isn't an excellent thing to be
>>> interested in or to hack on, just that it's much easier to get your
>>> expectations up than it is to get anything actually working -- see
>>> Emotiv as an example of hype vs. reality.
>>>
>>> Art projects using the EEG like Kal's robot or the Monochrom drink
>>> machine are cool and fun, but they basically use EEG as a glorified
>>> random noise source. It would be excellent to do something better.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Vlad Spears
>>> <spears at 2secondfuse.com> wrote:
>>>>> Al Billings wrote:
>>>>>> Jake has mentioned some interest in hacking openeeg. This has  
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> discussed here before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than him and I, who else is interested in this kind of
>>>>>> project?
>>>>
>>>> I'd definitely like to work on an OpenEEG project.  I've
>>>> considered building
>>>> my own several times in the past, but thought I would give Emotiv
>>>> a bit more
>>>> time to reach the market.  My end goal would be to use the stream
>>>> of data to
>>>> guide musical machinery in Max/MSP, Pd and bridged DAW
>>>> environments using
>>>> OSC or MIDI.
>>>>
>>>> I bet I can make my brain sound like drum 'n' bass.
>>>>
>>>> Vlad
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:44:01 -0700
> From: Jesse Zbikowski <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Tonight: DJing and Music Composition on
> 	Linux	(BALUG)
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Message-ID:
> 	<683785120903171544i287dd76lbc6294dec7ea24be at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Noted local 8-bit musician Jordan Gray (aka Starpause) will be  
> giving a talk
> and demo tonight of open source DJ and tracker software (cross- 
> platform,
> not just for Linux) at the Four Seas banquet hall in Chinatown (731
> Grant).  The presentation is at 8, or come by 7 to get dinner with the
> BALUG folks.
>
> http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1897868/
>
> Have you ever wanted to learn beat-mixing or electronic music
> composition? Want to get started with software that's completely free
> and community-based? Join us for an evening with STARPAUSE (aka Jordan
> Gray), chiptune producer and founder of the Mp3Death (Creative
> Commons) netaudio label. Jordan will cover the basics of DJing and
> introduce you the free open-source MIXXX digital DJ software. Then
> we'll move on to tracker-based music composition using
> LittleGPTracker, which Jordan will demonstrate both on laptop and the
> Game Park handheld. LittleGPTracker is free and designed especially
> for 8-bit (GameBoy-style) music. Both software run on the free Linux
> operating system (Mac and Windows also available).
>
> "DJing and Music Composition on Linux" is hosted by the Bay Area Linux
> User Group (BALUG), a lively gathering of Linux users & free software
> enthusiasts that combines great food, community & intimate access to
> featured speakers. We meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant in
> Chinatown at 6:30pm. At 7, we share a family-style Chinese dinner,
> followed by our guest speaker at 8, then late-night drinking at the Li
> Po Lounge. The talk at 8 is always completely free. If you would like
> to join us for the dinner, please come early and bring $13. It would
> also be great if you could RSVP us (rsvp at balug.org) so we'll have an
> idea how much food to order.
>
> Transit:
>
>> From Montgomery BART, walk or take the 15. From Powell BART, walk or
> take the 30/45. From Nob Hill / Western Addition / Richmond take the
> 1.
>
> Easy $5 parking: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
> End of Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 17, Issue 68
> ***************************************************




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