[Noisebridge-discuss] Laser Cutter!

Tue Sep 29 18:17:21 UTC 2009

That's a very interesting idea about PCB fab- I tried to find
information on this, but it seems like the common technique is to use
a spray on mask (in these cases, just black spray paint), selectively
ablate the mask away with the laser, and then etch the board as you
would normally with ferric chloride or whatever:

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/01/how_to_use_a_laser_to_etc.html

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41222

I'm not sure whether or not developing a photomask is harder then
precisely laser ablating the mask, but unlike the CNC mill method, it
does seem to still require a container full of nasty chemicals
(although maybe fewer containers full of nasty chemicals than
traditional photoetching.)

-Mike

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:29 AM, David Yao <kudegra+nb at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's a good point. Try and go for straightest turn-key solution we can
> get.
>
> On another note, I'd like to point out that the laser cutter can be used to
> cut and/or etch traces on PCBs, much like the little CNC. Additionally,
> while shapes won't be quite as free-form as with the Makerbot, what we can
> make with a powerful laser cutter ought to generally be far more
> functional/structural. If we have the workflow setup right, we can make both
> mechanical and electrical 'thingies' faster and more repeatably, more
> on-the-fly, than any of our other methods (ideally).
>
> -
> DY
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Meredith Scheff <satiredun at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I would like a tool that was a tool and not a project in it's own
>> right. We have plenty of those.
>> M
>>
>> Drawing stuff and making things
>>
>>
>> On Sep 29, 2009, at 1:28 AM, Michael Prados <mprados at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I think part of the story on fumes we're missing here is the filter,
>> > which I don't remember encountering on the machines I've used.  Here
>> > are a couple of options:
>> >
>> > http://www.electrocorp.net/market/laser_engraving.html
>> >
>> > http://www.laserfilter.com/
>> >
>> > Not sure how effective these are, but the second one does mention both
>> > wood and acrylic.  I would suppose there is some kind of tradeoff
>> > between investing in awesome ductwork and fans and great filtering.
>> > Of course the filter is another maintenance issue.
>> >
>> > -mike
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Mark Cohen <markc at binaryfaith.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Not to flog a deceased equine, but a real world example. There is
>> >> this
>> >> great company that laser etched moleskine notebooks called modofly.
>> >> (http://lifehacker.com/392041/modofly-laser+etched-moleskine-notebooks
>> >> ) On their site : http://66.116.156.9/blogger.php?paged=2 near the
>> >> bottom, it reads.
>> >>
>> >> "Modofly is Back!
>> >>
>> >> After a hiatus due to bad chemicals occurring in the burning of
>> >> Moleskines, we are back with our own designed book! Our new book is a
>> >> front to back color delight! We are happy to say that we can now
>> >> showcase art from the artists much better. We also have the ability
>> >> to
>> >> do one off customs in a way we used to not be able to feasibly do.
>> >> Check out the custom button on the navigation bar.
>> >>
>> >> We have an amazing collection of artists working with us now, and it
>> >> grows almost daily. We have (or will be uploading soon) artwork from
>> >> Camilla d’Errico, Jason Limon, Travis Louie, Matt Cipov, Dan Hilli
>> >> er,
>> >> Marc Gabanna, Keith Thompson, Stephen Rothwell, Doktor A, and many
>> >> many more. Come check it out!
>> >>
>> >> We print our books on demand which takes a touch longer on shipping,
>> >> but allows us to give you such a wide selection of great artwork from
>> >> artists around the globe. Do you have art you would love to see on
>> >> our
>> >> books? Do you know of someone we should be working with? Go to our
>> >> contact tab on the navigation bar, and shoot us an email. Even if we
>> >> can’t currently use your work, getting your own work is pretty ea
>> >> sy,
>> >> and if you are an artist, company, or marketing firm that wants to
>> >> get
>> >> over 20 books, contact us as we offer price breaks.
>> >>
>> >> Are you a store looking for unique merchandise? Do you know of a
>> >> store
>> >> we should be in? Please contact us if you are interested in selling
>> >> our books, or know of a store that we should talk to.
>> >>
>> >> Do you run an art gallery, or do you frequently curate shows? Talk to
>> >> us. We can help you get set up with books to sell with the artists
>> >> that you are showing or will be showing.
>> >>
>> >> We currently have ruled books ready to go and should have our sketch
>> >> books here in about 3 weeks, but they are ready for pre-order, so
>> >> line
>> >> up!"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I happen to have one of their original laser etched books and I
>> >> wish I
>> >> had gotten more, they were AWESOME.. But I'd rather have living
>> >> artists making book, not dead artists.
>> >>
>> >> Just my .02.. If/when we get a laser etch/cutter ventilation is a
>> >> HUGELY important thing..
>> >>
>> >> /Mark/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Rachel McConnell wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Ventilation important b/c some of the materials it can cut
>> >>> vaporize to
>> >>> Nastiness that we don't want people to breathe.  We should make sure
>> >>> to
>> >>> have a force ventilator that vents out a window or through the HVAC
>> >>> system (once that's installed).  Ideally it should live in a room of
>> >>> its
>> >>> own, although that may be difficult.  It should absolutely not go in
>> >>> the
>> >>> dirty shop b/c of the dirt, as epsas points out.
>> >>>
>> >>> Rachel
>> >>>
>> >>> epsas at evil-wire.org wrote:
>> >>>> The laser cutter will need to have ventilation -- it will also need
>> >>>> to be in a room free of dust and airborne contaminants (as those
>> >>>> can munge up the mirrors)...  access to water is also important for
>> >>>> cooling.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:21:39AM -0700, Shannon Lee wrote:
>> >>>>> So, I think this is a great goal; perhaps we decide what we want
>> >>>>> and then
>> >>>>> set up a fundable for it.
>> >>>>> As for your specific questions:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1) It's totally cool, and has been something specifically
>> >>>>> mentioned in the
>> >>>>> same breath as '3d printer' as something we want for our fab
>> >>>>> setup. We
>> >>>>> didn't get one at 83c because we didn't have room.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 2) I am a big fan of the 'get a cheap one now' model; cheap means
>> >>>>> we get a
>> >>>>> lot more experience figuring out why it broke, and now means we
>> >>>>> have more
>> >>>>> time to do it -- we may have bought a cheap one, learned how to do
>> >>>>> cool
>> >>>>> stuff with it, broken it, and been able to build enthusiasm for a
>> >>>>> much
>> >>>>> better new one by the time we've raised the money for a nice one.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 3) Does it need its own room?  Can it live in either the dirty
>> >>>>> shop or the
>> >>>>> electronics area?  Does the room currently being used as the
>> >>>>> electrical shed
>> >>>>> work for this purpose?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 4) Fundables is a great way to raise money for stuff like this,
>> >>>>> someone has
>> >>>>> to volunteer to be the Point Person.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 5)  Everyone.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --S
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> LASER CUTTER.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> WANT.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> After seeing the awesome you can do at Tech Shop and NYCResistor,
>> >>>>>> I'm
>> >>>>>> willing to spearhead (lenshead?) an effort to get a laser cutter
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge. Though I've used one a couple times,
>> >>>>>> I'm a relative noob. Talking points:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 1. Is this cool?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 2. What do we want in terms of power, deck size, cost (i.e. name
>> >>>>>> brand
>> >>>>>> or Chinese)? Used (cheaper, but potential for fraud and
>> >>>>>> jankiness)  or
>> >>>>>> new ($$$$) ?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 3. Assuming people are OK with it at Noisebridge, where does it
>> >>>>>> go?
>> >>>>>> The DJ booth seems good in terms of corner location (low
>> >>>>>> vibration,
>> >>>>>> out of the way, some sound isolation) and access to window/wall
>> >>>>>> (for
>> >>>>>> ventilation). The DJs might disagree. Thoughts?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 4. How do we pay? Consensus donations seems to be a workable
>> >>>>>> solution,
>> >>>>>> but we would have to figure out a quid pro quo (i.e. donors get
>> >>>>>> priority or something). Is $20K an unreasonable goal?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> 5. Maintenance. Who babysits and fixes it when it breaks? (I will
>> >>>>>> volunteer some but can't be there 24/7.)
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Grey started a wiki page in June. If you are interested in
>> >>>>>> donating,
>> >>>>>> using, or just interested, please sign up:
>> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Lasercutter
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I will summarize any list discussion there.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Just in: I asked Bre Pettis of NYCResistor (who makes a living on
>> >>>>>> his)
>> >>>>>> for advice. Here's his response:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Minimum: 35 Watt Epilog Mini. 12x24  Machine + Filter + Tax =
>> >>>>>>> 20K
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Very Desirable: 60 Watt Epilog. 24x36 Machine + Filter + Tax =
>> >>>>>>> more than
>> >>>>>> 20k.
>> >>>>>>> We wish we had gotten a more powerful machine, but because we
>> >>>>>>> didn't know
>> >>>>>> better and it's a lot of money, we went with the mini.
>> >>>>>>> Don't get a chinese off brand machine. They are cheap and well,
>> >>>>>>> cheap.
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Shannon Lee
>> >>>>> (503) 539-3700
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from
>> >>>>> science."
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
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>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
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