[Noisebridge-discuss] Laser Cutter!

Tue Sep 29 18:58:35 UTC 2009

I've never heard of cutting copper with a (consumer-grade) laser
cutter. Molten copper is highly reflective and wouldn't absorb much
energy; and even if you could get it to vaporize I would worry that
the vapor would condense back on the lens. Anyone with any more info
on this?

And the problem for me with etching boards is always the *@*&^% holes
and vias.  Not everything is surface mount.  But presumably those
could be laser-drilled?

Maybe we need to invent a micro-plasma-cutter attachment to take off the copper!

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Michael Prados <mprados at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's a very interesting idea about PCB fab- I tried to find
> information on this, but it seems like the common technique is to use
> a spray on mask (in these cases, just black spray paint), selectively
> ablate the mask away with the laser, and then etch the board as you
> would normally with ferric chloride or whatever:
>
> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/01/how_to_use_a_laser_to_etc.html
>
> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41222
>
> I'm not sure whether or not developing a photomask is harder then
> precisely laser ablating the mask, but unlike the CNC mill method, it
> does seem to still require a container full of nasty chemicals
> (although maybe fewer containers full of nasty chemicals than
> traditional photoetching.)
>
> -Mike
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:29 AM, David Yao <kudegra+nb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> That's a good point. Try and go for straightest turn-key solution we can
>> get.
>>
>> On another note, I'd like to point out that the laser cutter can be used to
>> cut and/or etch traces on PCBs, much like the little CNC. Additionally,
>> while shapes won't be quite as free-form as with the Makerbot, what we can
>> make with a powerful laser cutter ought to generally be far more
>> functional/structural. If we have the workflow setup right, we can make both
>> mechanical and electrical 'thingies' faster and more repeatably, more
>> on-the-fly, than any of our other methods (ideally).
>>
>> -
>> DY
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Meredith Scheff <satiredun at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would like a tool that was a tool and not a project in it's own
>>> right. We have plenty of those.
>>> M
>>>
>>> Drawing stuff and making things
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 29, 2009, at 1:28 AM, Michael Prados <mprados at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I think part of the story on fumes we're missing here is the filter,
>>> > which I don't remember encountering on the machines I've used.  Here
>>> > are a couple of options:
>>> >
>>> > http://www.electrocorp.net/market/laser_engraving.html
>>> >
>>> > http://www.laserfilter.com/
>>> >
>>> > Not sure how effective these are, but the second one does mention both
>>> > wood and acrylic.  I would suppose there is some kind of tradeoff
>>> > between investing in awesome ductwork and fans and great filtering.
>>> > Of course the filter is another maintenance issue.
>>> >
>>> > -mike
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Mark Cohen <markc at binaryfaith.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Not to flog a deceased equine, but a real world example. There is
>>> >> this
>>> >> great company that laser etched moleskine notebooks called modofly.
>>> >> (http://lifehacker.com/392041/modofly-laser+etched-moleskine-notebooks
>>> >> ) On their site : http://66.116.156.9/blogger.php?paged=2 near the
>>> >> bottom, it reads.
>>> >>
>>> >> "Modofly is Back!
>>> >>
>>> >> After a hiatus due to bad chemicals occurring in the burning of
>>> >> Moleskines, we are back with our own designed book! Our new book is a
>>> >> front to back color delight! We are happy to say that we can now
>>> >> showcase art from the artists much better. We also have the ability
>>> >> to
>>> >> do one off customs in a way we used to not be able to feasibly do.
>>> >> Check out the custom button on the navigation bar.
>>> >>
>>> >> We have an amazing collection of artists working with us now, and it
>>> >> grows almost daily. We have (or will be uploading soon) artwork from
>>> >> Camilla d’Errico, Jason Limon, Travis Louie, Matt Cipov, Dan Hilli
>>> >> er,
>>> >> Marc Gabanna, Keith Thompson, Stephen Rothwell, Doktor A, and many
>>> >> many more. Come check it out!
>>> >>
>>> >> We print our books on demand which takes a touch longer on shipping,
>>> >> but allows us to give you such a wide selection of great artwork from
>>> >> artists around the globe. Do you have art you would love to see on
>>> >> our
>>> >> books? Do you know of someone we should be working with? Go to our
>>> >> contact tab on the navigation bar, and shoot us an email. Even if we
>>> >> can’t currently use your work, getting your own work is pretty ea
>>> >> sy,
>>> >> and if you are an artist, company, or marketing firm that wants to
>>> >> get
>>> >> over 20 books, contact us as we offer price breaks.
>>> >>
>>> >> Are you a store looking for unique merchandise? Do you know of a
>>> >> store
>>> >> we should be in? Please contact us if you are interested in selling
>>> >> our books, or know of a store that we should talk to.
>>> >>
>>> >> Do you run an art gallery, or do you frequently curate shows? Talk to
>>> >> us. We can help you get set up with books to sell with the artists
>>> >> that you are showing or will be showing.
>>> >>
>>> >> We currently have ruled books ready to go and should have our sketch
>>> >> books here in about 3 weeks, but they are ready for pre-order, so
>>> >> line
>>> >> up!"
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I happen to have one of their original laser etched books and I
>>> >> wish I
>>> >> had gotten more, they were AWESOME.. But I'd rather have living
>>> >> artists making book, not dead artists.
>>> >>
>>> >> Just my .02.. If/when we get a laser etch/cutter ventilation is a
>>> >> HUGELY important thing..
>>> >>
>>> >> /Mark/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Rachel McConnell wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Ventilation important b/c some of the materials it can cut
>>> >>> vaporize to
>>> >>> Nastiness that we don't want people to breathe.  We should make sure
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> have a force ventilator that vents out a window or through the HVAC
>>> >>> system (once that's installed).  Ideally it should live in a room of
>>> >>> its
>>> >>> own, although that may be difficult.  It should absolutely not go in
>>> >>> the
>>> >>> dirty shop b/c of the dirt, as epsas points out.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Rachel
>>> >>>
>>> >>> epsas at evil-wire.org wrote:
>>> >>>> The laser cutter will need to have ventilation -- it will also need
>>> >>>> to be in a room free of dust and airborne contaminants (as those
>>> >>>> can munge up the mirrors)...  access to water is also important for
>>> >>>> cooling.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:21:39AM -0700, Shannon Lee wrote:
>>> >>>>> So, I think this is a great goal; perhaps we decide what we want
>>> >>>>> and then
>>> >>>>> set up a fundable for it.
>>> >>>>> As for your specific questions:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 1) It's totally cool, and has been something specifically
>>> >>>>> mentioned in the
>>> >>>>> same breath as '3d printer' as something we want for our fab
>>> >>>>> setup. We
>>> >>>>> didn't get one at 83c because we didn't have room.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 2) I am a big fan of the 'get a cheap one now' model; cheap means
>>> >>>>> we get a
>>> >>>>> lot more experience figuring out why it broke, and now means we
>>> >>>>> have more
>>> >>>>> time to do it -- we may have bought a cheap one, learned how to do
>>> >>>>> cool
>>> >>>>> stuff with it, broken it, and been able to build enthusiasm for a
>>> >>>>> much
>>> >>>>> better new one by the time we've raised the money for a nice one.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 3) Does it need its own room?  Can it live in either the dirty
>>> >>>>> shop or the
>>> >>>>> electronics area?  Does the room currently being used as the
>>> >>>>> electrical shed
>>> >>>>> work for this purpose?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 4) Fundables is a great way to raise money for stuff like this,
>>> >>>>> someone has
>>> >>>>> to volunteer to be the Point Person.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 5)  Everyone.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --S
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org>
>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> LASER CUTTER.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> WANT.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> After seeing the awesome you can do at Tech Shop and NYCResistor,
>>> >>>>>> I'm
>>> >>>>>> willing to spearhead (lenshead?) an effort to get a laser cutter
>>> >>>>>> for
>>> >>>>>> Noisebridge. Though I've used one a couple times,
>>> >>>>>> I'm a relative noob. Talking points:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 1. Is this cool?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 2. What do we want in terms of power, deck size, cost (i.e. name
>>> >>>>>> brand
>>> >>>>>> or Chinese)? Used (cheaper, but potential for fraud and
>>> >>>>>> jankiness)  or
>>> >>>>>> new ($$$$) ?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 3. Assuming people are OK with it at Noisebridge, where does it
>>> >>>>>> go?
>>> >>>>>> The DJ booth seems good in terms of corner location (low
>>> >>>>>> vibration,
>>> >>>>>> out of the way, some sound isolation) and access to window/wall
>>> >>>>>> (for
>>> >>>>>> ventilation). The DJs might disagree. Thoughts?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 4. How do we pay? Consensus donations seems to be a workable
>>> >>>>>> solution,
>>> >>>>>> but we would have to figure out a quid pro quo (i.e. donors get
>>> >>>>>> priority or something). Is $20K an unreasonable goal?
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 5. Maintenance. Who babysits and fixes it when it breaks? (I will
>>> >>>>>> volunteer some but can't be there 24/7.)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Grey started a wiki page in June. If you are interested in
>>> >>>>>> donating,
>>> >>>>>> using, or just interested, please sign up:
>>> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Lasercutter
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I will summarize any list discussion there.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Just in: I asked Bre Pettis of NYCResistor (who makes a living on
>>> >>>>>> his)
>>> >>>>>> for advice. Here's his response:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Minimum: 35 Watt Epilog Mini. 12x24  Machine + Filter + Tax =
>>> >>>>>>> 20K
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Very Desirable: 60 Watt Epilog. 24x36 Machine + Filter + Tax =
>>> >>>>>>> more than
>>> >>>>>> 20k.
>>> >>>>>>> We wish we had gotten a more powerful machine, but because we
>>> >>>>>>> didn't know
>>> >>>>>> better and it's a lot of money, we went with the mini.
>>> >>>>>>> Don't get a chinese off brand machine. They are cheap and well,
>>> >>>>>>> cheap.
>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> Shannon Lee
>>> >>>>> (503) 539-3700
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from
>>> >>>>> science."
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>
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>
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