[Noisebridge-discuss] Laser Cutter!

Wed Sep 30 04:53:30 UTC 2009

Yeah, I might have mistaken the mask etching for the copper etching.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Michael Prados <mprados at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's a very interesting idea about PCB fab- I tried to find
> information on this, but it seems like the common technique is to use
> a spray on mask (in these cases, just black spray paint), selectively
> ablate the mask away with the laser, and then etch the board as you
> would normally with ferric chloride or whatever:
>
> http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/01/how_to_use_a_laser_to_etc.html
>
> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41222
>
> I'm not sure whether or not developing a photomask is harder then
> precisely laser ablating the mask, but unlike the CNC mill method, it
> does seem to still require a container full of nasty chemicals
> (although maybe fewer containers full of nasty chemicals than
> traditional photoetching.)
>
> -Mike
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:29 AM, David Yao <kudegra+nb at gmail.com<kudegra%2Bnb at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > That's a good point. Try and go for straightest turn-key solution we can
> > get.
> >
> > On another note, I'd like to point out that the laser cutter can be used
> to
> > cut and/or etch traces on PCBs, much like the little CNC. Additionally,
> > while shapes won't be quite as free-form as with the Makerbot, what we
> can
> > make with a powerful laser cutter ought to generally be far more
> > functional/structural. If we have the workflow setup right, we can make
> both
> > mechanical and electrical 'thingies' faster and more repeatably, more
> > on-the-fly, than any of our other methods (ideally).
> >
> > -
> > DY
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 2:30 AM, Meredith Scheff <satiredun at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I would like a tool that was a tool and not a project in it's own
> >> right. We have plenty of those.
> >> M
> >>
> >> Drawing stuff and making things
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 29, 2009, at 1:28 AM, Michael Prados <mprados at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I think part of the story on fumes we're missing here is the filter,
> >> > which I don't remember encountering on the machines I've used.  Here
> >> > are a couple of options:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.electrocorp.net/market/laser_engraving.html
> >> >
> >> > http://www.laserfilter.com/
> >> >
> >> > Not sure how effective these are, but the second one does mention both
> >> > wood and acrylic.  I would suppose there is some kind of tradeoff
> >> > between investing in awesome ductwork and fans and great filtering.
> >> > Of course the filter is another maintenance issue.
> >> >
> >> > -mike
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Mark Cohen <markc at binaryfaith.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Not to flog a deceased equine, but a real world example. There is
> >> >> this
> >> >> great company that laser etched moleskine notebooks called modofly.
> >> >> (
> http://lifehacker.com/392041/modofly-laser+etched-moleskine-notebooks
> >> >> ) On their site : http://66.116.156.9/blogger.php?paged=2 near the
> >> >> bottom, it reads.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Modofly is Back!
> >> >>
> >> >> After a hiatus due to bad chemicals occurring in the burning of
> >> >> Moleskines, we are back with our own designed book! Our new book is a
> >> >> front to back color delight! We are happy to say that we can now
> >> >> showcase art from the artists much better. We also have the ability
> >> >> to
> >> >> do one off customs in a way we used to not be able to feasibly do.
> >> >> Check out the custom button on the navigation bar.
> >> >>
> >> >> We have an amazing collection of artists working with us now, and it
> >> >> grows almost daily. We have (or will be uploading soon) artwork from
> >> >> Camilla d’Errico, Jason Limon, Travis Louie, Matt Cipov, Dan Hilli
> >> >> er,
> >> >> Marc Gabanna, Keith Thompson, Stephen Rothwell, Doktor A, and many
> >> >> many more. Come check it out!
> >> >>
> >> >> We print our books on demand which takes a touch longer on shipping,
> >> >> but allows us to give you such a wide selection of great artwork from
> >> >> artists around the globe. Do you have art you would love to see on
> >> >> our
> >> >> books? Do you know of someone we should be working with? Go to our
> >> >> contact tab on the navigation bar, and shoot us an email. Even if we
> >> >> can’t currently use your work, getting your own work is pretty ea
> >> >> sy,
> >> >> and if you are an artist, company, or marketing firm that wants to
> >> >> get
> >> >> over 20 books, contact us as we offer price breaks.
> >> >>
> >> >> Are you a store looking for unique merchandise? Do you know of a
> >> >> store
> >> >> we should be in? Please contact us if you are interested in selling
> >> >> our books, or know of a store that we should talk to.
> >> >>
> >> >> Do you run an art gallery, or do you frequently curate shows? Talk to
> >> >> us. We can help you get set up with books to sell with the artists
> >> >> that you are showing or will be showing.
> >> >>
> >> >> We currently have ruled books ready to go and should have our sketch
> >> >> books here in about 3 weeks, but they are ready for pre-order, so
> >> >> line
> >> >> up!"
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I happen to have one of their original laser etched books and I
> >> >> wish I
> >> >> had gotten more, they were AWESOME.. But I'd rather have living
> >> >> artists making book, not dead artists.
> >> >>
> >> >> Just my .02.. If/when we get a laser etch/cutter ventilation is a
> >> >> HUGELY important thing..
> >> >>
> >> >> /Mark/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sep 28, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Rachel McConnell wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Ventilation important b/c some of the materials it can cut
> >> >>> vaporize to
> >> >>> Nastiness that we don't want people to breathe.  We should make sure
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> have a force ventilator that vents out a window or through the HVAC
> >> >>> system (once that's installed).  Ideally it should live in a room of
> >> >>> its
> >> >>> own, although that may be difficult.  It should absolutely not go in
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> dirty shop b/c of the dirt, as epsas points out.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Rachel
> >> >>>
> >> >>> epsas at evil-wire.org wrote:
> >> >>>> The laser cutter will need to have ventilation -- it will also need
> >> >>>> to be in a room free of dust and airborne contaminants (as those
> >> >>>> can munge up the mirrors)...  access to water is also important for
> >> >>>> cooling.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:21:39AM -0700, Shannon Lee wrote:
> >> >>>>> So, I think this is a great goal; perhaps we decide what we want
> >> >>>>> and then
> >> >>>>> set up a fundable for it.
> >> >>>>> As for your specific questions:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> 1) It's totally cool, and has been something specifically
> >> >>>>> mentioned in the
> >> >>>>> same breath as '3d printer' as something we want for our fab
> >> >>>>> setup. We
> >> >>>>> didn't get one at 83c because we didn't have room.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> 2) I am a big fan of the 'get a cheap one now' model; cheap means
> >> >>>>> we get a
> >> >>>>> lot more experience figuring out why it broke, and now means we
> >> >>>>> have more
> >> >>>>> time to do it -- we may have bought a cheap one, learned how to do
> >> >>>>> cool
> >> >>>>> stuff with it, broken it, and been able to build enthusiasm for a
> >> >>>>> much
> >> >>>>> better new one by the time we've raised the money for a nice one.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> 3) Does it need its own room?  Can it live in either the dirty
> >> >>>>> shop or the
> >> >>>>> electronics area?  Does the room currently being used as the
> >> >>>>> electrical shed
> >> >>>>> work for this purpose?
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> 4) Fundables is a great way to raise money for stuff like this,
> >> >>>>> someone has
> >> >>>>> to volunteer to be the Point Person.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> 5)  Everyone.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --S
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Jonathan Foote <jtfoote at ieee.org
> >
> >> >>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> LASER CUTTER.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> WANT.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> After seeing the awesome you can do at Tech Shop and NYCResistor,
> >> >>>>>> I'm
> >> >>>>>> willing to spearhead (lenshead?) an effort to get a laser cutter
> >> >>>>>> for
> >> >>>>>> Noisebridge. Though I've used one a couple times,
> >> >>>>>> I'm a relative noob. Talking points:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> 1. Is this cool?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> 2. What do we want in terms of power, deck size, cost (i.e. name
> >> >>>>>> brand
> >> >>>>>> or Chinese)? Used (cheaper, but potential for fraud and
> >> >>>>>> jankiness)  or
> >> >>>>>> new ($$$$) ?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> 3. Assuming people are OK with it at Noisebridge, where does it
> >> >>>>>> go?
> >> >>>>>> The DJ booth seems good in terms of corner location (low
> >> >>>>>> vibration,
> >> >>>>>> out of the way, some sound isolation) and access to window/wall
> >> >>>>>> (for
> >> >>>>>> ventilation). The DJs might disagree. Thoughts?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> 4. How do we pay? Consensus donations seems to be a workable
> >> >>>>>> solution,
> >> >>>>>> but we would have to figure out a quid pro quo (i.e. donors get
> >> >>>>>> priority or something). Is $20K an unreasonable goal?
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> 5. Maintenance. Who babysits and fixes it when it breaks? (I will
> >> >>>>>> volunteer some but can't be there 24/7.)
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Grey started a wiki page in June. If you are interested in
> >> >>>>>> donating,
> >> >>>>>> using, or just interested, please sign up:
> >> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Lasercutter
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> I will summarize any list discussion there.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Just in: I asked Bre Pettis of NYCResistor (who makes a living on
> >> >>>>>> his)
> >> >>>>>> for advice. Here's his response:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Minimum: 35 Watt Epilog Mini. 12x24  Machine + Filter + Tax =
> >> >>>>>>> 20K
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Very Desirable: 60 Watt Epilog. 24x36 Machine + Filter + Tax =
> >> >>>>>>> more than
> >> >>>>>> 20k.
> >> >>>>>>> We wish we had gotten a more powerful machine, but because we
> >> >>>>>>> didn't know
> >> >>>>>> better and it's a lot of money, we went with the mini.
> >> >>>>>>> Don't get a chinese off brand machine. They are cheap and well,
> >> >>>>>>> cheap.
> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> --
> >> >>>>> Shannon Lee
> >> >>>>> (503) 539-3700
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from
> >> >>>>> science."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > sent from my computing machine
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> sent from my computing machine
>
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