[Noisebridge-discuss] Block over email for noise pollution

Vlad Spears spears at 2secondfuse.com
Fri Apr 9 02:55:24 UTC 2010 

Yes, that's a pretty good example in another way, too.

The sewing machine might have been a noise polluting problem if people  
worked on it all the time.  Probably not as crazy-making of noise  
pollution as a piano in the space, but it might have driven people  
crazy.  Instead, everyone is pretty much happy to have it in the space  
or indifferent.  If we needed to find a balance, we probably could  
have via discussion.

I think a piano has more potential for annoyance, but we might be able  
to do the same if it became a problem, which is why I only partially  
agree with davidfine.  I do think a piano with a headphone jack would  
be better, so perhaps the middle road is to go for both?  Free piano +  
Yamaha YPG-635 or similar via buy-in = people can play anytime and  
everyone is happy.

Vlad


On Apr 8, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Ian Atha wrote:

> Perhaps the purchase of a sewing machine would be a better example?
> I'm for it, and I like watching the ladies making 'em dresses, but . .
> . I wouldn't give money for it. It doesn't mean it's an idea of less
> quality.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 19:37, Vlad Spears <spears at 2secondfuse.com>  
> wrote:
>> You make a good point, but it's not apples to apples.  Spacebridge  
>> doesn't
>> impact the space much for everyone, whereas a piano might.  To get  
>> a 1:1
>> comparison, you'd have to posit Spacebridge with a balloon in the  
>> space that
>> floats around and every so often lightly bops everyone in the head  
>> in a
>> repetitive pattern, breaking their concentration.
>>
>> I'd kick in money for projects I support in principle but could not  
>> or would
>> not personally participate in.  I somewhat think of a certain  
>> percentage of
>> my monthly dues that way. :-)
>>
>> Vlad
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Ian Atha wrote:
>>
>>> That explains a lot--thank you.
>>>
>>> One point though, would you financially support a project in which  
>>> you
>>> weren't personally interested in but you support in principle?
>>>
>>> For example, I think Spacebridge is really cool and I'm very glad  
>>> they
>>> use Noisebridge as their base station, but I wouldn't really care to
>>> support it financially.
>>>
>>> What I was trying to say with my, again reduction to the absurd,
>>> corollaries is that quality-of-idea != monetary-buy-in.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 19:22, Vlad Spears <spears at 2secondfuse.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am partially in agreement with davidfine, so a few  
>>>> observations...
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 8, 2010, at 6:11 PM, Ian Atha wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can't raise $600 from the community for an idea, it's  
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> not that good an idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Corollary (1): nobody in third-world countries has good ideas.
>>>>> Corollary (2): no group of "starving artists" can have good ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that by community you're referring to the sub-community of  
>>>>> people
>>>>> interested in music (and not the Noisebridge community at large).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A piano in the space is not limited to the sub-community of people
>>>> interested in it.  It will impact the whole of the space.  If you
>>>> can't get $600 of buy-in from the whole of the space, it's probably
>>>> not a very good idea for the whole of the space.
>>>>
>>>> In corollary 1, you've taken the idea out of monetary context.   
>>>> In a
>>>> third world context, with a third world Noisebridge (now there's an
>>>> opportunity), the amount would, of course, be scaled.
>>>>
>>>> In corollary 2, you've again taken the idea out of monetary  
>>>> context.
>>>> In the context of Noisebridge in San Francisco, $600 of buy-in  
>>>> isn't
>>>> very much.  In a community of only starving artists, the amount  
>>>> would
>>>> obviously be different.  75 cents?  One dollar?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 8, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Ian Atha wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On the procedural, do people believe that, I, as a member of
>>>>> Noisebridge, may I say something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm very jumpy--many of you have witnessed the effects sudden  
>>>>> noises
>>>>> to Z-axis coordinate. I tend to jump up a few feet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Being a member of Noisebridge, I block the the usage of any  
>>>>> instrument
>>>>> that produces sudden noises. For example, dremels (as long as  
>>>>> they are
>>>>> used for more than 2 seconds each time) are fine, but don't even  
>>>>> think
>>>>> of using a staple-gun.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whether I'm around or not, it doesn't matter. As a member, I block
>>>>> their usage within the premises of Noisebridge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would my block count? What effect does such a statement have,
>>>>> pragmatically?
>>>>
>>>> A block is for something brought up for consensus.  Preemptively
>>>> stating an intention to block generally seems to serve as a notice
>>>> that the discussion is going in a direction someone is unhappy  
>>>> with,
>>>> even though it has not yet been placed on the agenda for consensus,
>>>> and probably indicates that more discussion and compromise is  
>>>> needed
>>>> or the person stating their intention to block will add it to the
>>>> agenda for consensus.
>>>>
>>>> So you can't just block the use of someone's noise polluting
>>>> equipment.  It has to be put on the Tuesday agenda for discussion,
>>>> discussed, then consensed on the following week or at some time  
>>>> after
>>>> a committee explores it.
>>>>
>>>> It's easy for everyone to knee-jerk on the mailing list.  He might
>>>> have done a more friendly job of it, but I think davidfine was
>>>> operating in the above mode of notifying the discussion that he is
>>>> unhappy with the idea of a piano in the space and looking for
>>>> compromise.    See that he started his statement with "For the time
>>>> being I will block on any notion to bring an acoustic piano to
>>>> Noisebridge."  This is not an immovable position.
>>>>
>>>> I somewhat agree with davidfine that an acoustic piano in the space
>>>> could be problematic, but I think shooting it down is solving a
>>>> problem before it occurs.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the real problem is that it has been brought up for  
>>>> discussion
>>>> and some sort of group permission here at all.  It's too late now,
>>>> since it's been brought up and drama-fied, but Noisebridge is a do-
>>>> ocracy.  If people want to bring in a free piano, they can do it,  
>>>> at
>>>> any time.  No need to ask for permission.  If we can't live with it
>>>> after that, someone will bring it up for discussion at a Tuesday
>>>> meeting.
>>>>
>>>> Vlad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -ian.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 18:02, davidfine <d at vidfine.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the time being I will block on any notion to bring an  
>>>>>> acoustic
>>>>>> piano
>>>>>> to Noisebridge. It's not a good use of the space. I'd support a
>>>>>> digital
>>>>>> keyboard because they can be played quietly, stored out of the  
>>>>>> way,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they provide a handy midi interface.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Checkout the Yamaha YPG-635, it has weighted hammers like an  
>>>>>> acoustic
>>>>>> and can be bought new for $560.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.onlineluxury-shopping.com/product_info.php?products_id=4889&cPath=25
>>>>>> This keyboard has better tactile response than any cheap old  
>>>>>> upright
>>>>>> piano you're likely to find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you can't raise $600 from the community for an idea, it's  
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> not that good an idea.
>>>>>> --D
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>
>>

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