[Noisebridge-discuss] Block over email for noise pollution

[Vlad Spears]

You make a good point, but it's not apples to apples.  Spacebridge  
doesn't impact the space much for everyone, whereas a piano might. To  
get a 1:1 comparison, you'd have to posit Spacebridge with a balloon  
in the space that floats around and every so often lightly bops  
everyone in the head in a repetitive pattern, breaking their  
concentration.

I'd kick in money for projects I support in principle but could not or  
would not personally participate in.  I somewhat think of a certain  
percentage of my monthly dues that way. :-)

Vlad



On Apr 8, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Ian Atha wrote:

> That explains a lot--thank you.
>
> One point though, would you financially support a project in which you
> weren't personally interested in but you support in principle?
>
> For example, I think Spacebridge is really cool and I'm very glad they
> use Noisebridge as their base station, but I wouldn't really care to
> support it financially.
>
> What I was trying to say with my, again reduction to the absurd,
> corollaries is that quality-of-idea != monetary-buy-in.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 19:22, Vlad Spears <spears at 2secondfuse.com>  
> wrote:
>> I am partially in agreement with davidfine, so a few observations...
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2010, at 6:11 PM, Ian Atha wrote:
>>>> If you can't raise $600 from the community for an idea, it's  
>>>> probably
>>>> not that good an idea.
>>>
>>> Corollary (1): nobody in third-world countries has good ideas.
>>> Corollary (2): no group of "starving artists" can have good ideas.
>>>
>>> Note that by community you're referring to the sub-community of  
>>> people
>>> interested in music (and not the Noisebridge community at large).
>>
>>
>> A piano in the space is not limited to the sub-community of people
>> interested in it.  It will impact the whole of the space.  If you
>> can't get $600 of buy-in from the whole of the space, it's probably
>> not a very good idea for the whole of the space.
>>
>> In corollary 1, you've taken the idea out of monetary context.  In a
>> third world context, with a third world Noisebridge (now there's an
>> opportunity), the amount would, of course, be scaled.
>>
>> In corollary 2, you've again taken the idea out of monetary context.
>> In the context of Noisebridge in San Francisco, $600 of buy-in isn't
>> very much.  In a community of only starving artists, the amount would
>> obviously be different.  75 cents?  One dollar?
>>
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2010, at 6:17 PM, Ian Atha wrote:
>>> On the procedural, do people believe that, I, as a member of
>>> Noisebridge, may I say something like this:
>>>
>>> I'm very jumpy--many of you have witnessed the effects sudden noises
>>> to Z-axis coordinate. I tend to jump up a few feet.
>>>
>>> Being a member of Noisebridge, I block the the usage of any  
>>> instrument
>>> that produces sudden noises. For example, dremels (as long as they  
>>> are
>>> used for more than 2 seconds each time) are fine, but don't even  
>>> think
>>> of using a staple-gun.
>>>
>>> Whether I'm around or not, it doesn't matter. As a member, I block
>>> their usage within the premises of Noisebridge.
>>>
>>> Would my block count? What effect does such a statement have,
>>> pragmatically?
>>
>> A block is for something brought up for consensus.  Preemptively
>> stating an intention to block generally seems to serve as a notice
>> that the discussion is going in a direction someone is unhappy with,
>> even though it has not yet been placed on the agenda for consensus,
>> and probably indicates that more discussion and compromise is needed
>> or the person stating their intention to block will add it to the
>> agenda for consensus.
>>
>> So you can't just block the use of someone's noise polluting
>> equipment.  It has to be put on the Tuesday agenda for discussion,
>> discussed, then consensed on the following week or at some time after
>> a committee explores it.
>>
>> It's easy for everyone to knee-jerk on the mailing list.  He might
>> have done a more friendly job of it, but I think davidfine was
>> operating in the above mode of notifying the discussion that he is
>> unhappy with the idea of a piano in the space and looking for
>> compromise.    See that he started his statement with "For the time
>> being I will block on any notion to bring an acoustic piano to
>> Noisebridge."  This is not an immovable position.
>>
>> I somewhat agree with davidfine that an acoustic piano in the space
>> could be problematic, but I think shooting it down is solving a
>> problem before it occurs.
>>
>> Perhaps the real problem is that it has been brought up for  
>> discussion
>> and some sort of group permission here at all.  It's too late now,
>> since it's been brought up and drama-fied, but Noisebridge is a do-
>> ocracy.  If people want to bring in a free piano, they can do it, at
>> any time.  No need to ask for permission.  If we can't live with it
>> after that, someone will bring it up for discussion at a Tuesday
>> meeting.
>>
>> Vlad
>>
>>
>>> -ian.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 18:02, davidfine <d at vidfine.com> wrote:
>>>> For the time being I will block on any notion to bring an acoustic
>>>> piano
>>>> to Noisebridge. It's not a good use of the space. I'd support a
>>>> digital
>>>> keyboard because they can be played quietly, stored out of the way,
>>>> and
>>>> they provide a handy midi interface.
>>>>
>>>> Checkout the Yamaha YPG-635, it has weighted hammers like an  
>>>> acoustic
>>>> and can be bought new for $560.
>>>> http://www.onlineluxury-shopping.com/product_info.php?products_id=4889&cPath=25
>>>> This keyboard has better tactile response than any cheap old  
>>>> upright
>>>> piano you're likely to find.
>>>>
>>>> If you can't raise $600 from the community for an idea, it's  
>>>> probably
>>>> not that good an idea.
>>>> --D
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
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