[Noisebridge-discuss] (no subject) ^-- SPAM

Thu Jun 10 19:12:52 UTC 2010

You raise some really good points.  It is good to see opening up "supporting
Noisebridge" to a wider audience.  I think my point was just to say "it's
not all just benevolence and good will" that they offered. It does bother me
more than a little that Elixir didn't kick anything back for drink sales,
though, since the impression that was given was that they were "drinking for
Noisebridge" (the whimsy of it appeals to me, although I know the concept
would bother a lot of people).  I would also understand if there were ABC
regulations surrounding that kind of sales-based donation.  It seems to be
skirting the law when they donate something linked to the sale, such as
tips,  though, if that's the case.

I will say I also wanted to wait until after the event to say anything, lest
people interpret that my commentary to mean they shouldn't go out for a fun
night and throw down for Noisebridge too.  I'm glad this event was held and
I'm glad the money was raised.

Christie
_______
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The
latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
-- Albert Einstein

On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Sean Cusack <sean.p.cusack at gmail.com>wrote:

> Google had a sweet little self correcting mechanism that swooped in to
> auto-disable my account and force a password change after the first bolus of
> e-mails went out, so the problem got stopped pretty fast. The e-mails that
> are out there still suck, but at least no more will go out from my e-mail
> addy. Cool? Yes. Skynet-ish? Likely :) - put on the tin foil hats!
>
> I hear what both of you are saying, but I don't think its really a super
> sinister move on Elixir's part just to try and get more business. Although
> their motive could be solely for bar owner profit (hard to say since I don't
> personally know them or anything), I kind of think the end result is
> universally beneficially. Yes, the bar gets some free advertising and a lot
> of free labor from an inside man (me), but that happens all the time -
> Noisebridge gets free advertising and free labor out of me too. Yes, an
> unaffiliated third party makes more money that night. But in addition to the
> bar making more money, the bartender on staff probably also makes more than
> they normally would in tips, and a group that would typically make $0 from
> people drinking at a bar (NB), gets money. Isn't that by definition a
> symbiotic relationship? Everyone is helping everyone else.
>
> Also, I think the advantage of breaking out into a different donation mode
> every once and a while is that you get a different crowd donating into your
> cause. A prime example: a lot of people that helped make our bay to breakers
> outfits at Noisebridge showed up and tipped their guts out. I agree that
> maybe it would be better if they gave directly to Noisebridge, but even
> though they may love and support the space, its just not their bag to give
> cash directly. They *want* to support the space, but they also want to do it
> in their own way. A banner ad is very impersonal - people clicking clearly
> don't care if you make cash, and they don't care about your cause. It seemed
> really obvious from behind the bar that most people at Elixir last night
> really did care about NB or else they wouldn't have been cool with putting
> up with some slow and shoddy service for basic drinks (from me!).
>
> Anyways, its my $0.02. Leif - we're totally on for beer! I'm out of town
> this weekend, but will be in shortly thereafter -
> Sean
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I couldn't have said it better myself, Lief.  While it's clear that the
>> intention was good, the net effect is increasing business for Elixir.  After
>> all, it was your responsibility to promote the event, Sean, so you
>> effectively gave them free advertising.  The portion that they donated to
>> Noisebridge?  It's revenue that they would not have seen anyway - tips.
>>
>> I'd like to thank the bartenders at Elixir for the donations, although I
>> would consider the bar itself to merely be a parasitic enabler.  I will say
>> that I have been there and think it's a nice place to go for a drink, but it
>> makes me a little uncomfortable that they're using the community in this
>> fashion to increase their business.
>>
>> When a portion of drink sales go to supporting the advertised charity,
>> then they're actually contributing.
>>
>> Christie
>> _______
>> "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The
>> latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
>> hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
>> -- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Leif Ryge <leif at synthesize.us> wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/10/2010 09:19 AM, Sean Cusack wrote:
>>> > Sorry all - I hope peeps know that I didn't mean to spam the list - I
>>> think
>>> > me...err...google made it all better.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I figured you probably didn't mean to. Out of curiosity, how did
>>> this happen? I understand that the city of Santo Adriano's website was
>>> compromised by spammers, but what caused you to send that email to the
>>> list consisting solely of that link? (Is your computer OK?)
>>>
>>> And, what do you mean "google made it all better"? I just clicked the
>>> link again and Google isn't stopping it from redirecting to a pharmacy
>>> site.
>>>
>>> > We all use the talents we have to make the space better, right? Leif,
>>> you're
>>> > likely an infinitely better coder than me. Me? I can do some stuff with
>>> > booze. Sorry you think its a bad idea to try and use my ability to
>>> raise
>>> > funds for the space other than walking in and dropping money in a
>>> > bucket/sending a paypal donation, but this is a do-acracy right?
>>> so...tough
>>> > shit :). In case it really wasn't clear in the e-mails, the point
>>> wasn't
>>> > really to advertise a bar, but to advertise an event to get money for
>>> NB
>>> > that happened to take place at a bar.
>>>
>>> I was reluctant to say anything at all, especially since Noisebridge
>>> could use more funds and I do like to consume alcohol - I almost
>>> attended your event last night myself. Donating to Noisebridge is great;
>>> thank you for doing that! What I don't appreciate is advertising on our
>>> website, and regardless of if that was "the point" it was clearly a
>>> result. Elixir obviously held this event to make money for themselves,
>>> first and foremost. They presumably made more money than they would have
>>> otherwise, due to the crowd of Noisebridge supporters you brought in.
>>> More significantly, in addition to last nights' revenues, they also
>>> reaped an invaluable gain to their brand equity: Our good name is now
>>> associated with theirs in many local alcohol consumers' minds. This is
>>> obviously beneficial to them, and, assuming they made more than they
>>> would have otherwise, it didn't cost them a thing.
>>>
>>> Lots of companies would gladly throw some money at Noisebridge in
>>> exchange for banners in the space and/or on our website. Luckily I don't
>>> think our financial situation is so bad that we need to consider that
>>> kind of thing. We have turned down "donors" in the past who would have
>>> required advertising in exchange for their "donation"; I think we should
>>> continue this practice.
>>>
>>> If our financial situation ever does become dire enough that we decide
>>> we must sell association with our name as an advertising product, I
>>> think we should try to get the most value possible by going with a big
>>> spender like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldenPalace.com (I'm only 5%
>>> joking here - I sincerely hope it never comes to this, but if it does, I
>>> do think we should shop around).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> ~leif
>>>
>>> p.s. want to get a beer sometime? I'll buy :)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>
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