[Noisebridge-discuss] The future of Python class at Noisebridge

aditya bhargava aditya at wefoundland.com
Tue Oct 5 19:25:19 UTC 2010 

Good point. I completely agree. I think it's nice to have a resource that
spells things out so well when you're stuck – but I will try to make it
challenging enough that people actually learn something.


On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Laura Khalil <zazenergy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Adit,
>
> I took Dan's class when he just got on board (over a year ago) and really
> enjoyed it. I haven't been back in an age, but glad to hear you're thinking
> of keeping it alive.
>
> One thing about Invent with Python: Al does a great job of giving an
> overview of Python. However, the book is written for kids, so everything is
> spelled out -- there's little to challenge the adult user to try and figure
> things out on his own. Personally, I find this critical to my understanding
> of a programming language.
>
> I still think it's a great book, but may be better served if it could be
> supplemented with test questions/homework problems to apply what's learned.
>
> Laura
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:36 AM, aditya bhargava <aditya at wefoundland.com>wrote:
>
>> Mark himself has said that Dive Into Python has become outdated and he
>> hasn't had time to update it. I was thinking of going with Al's book for
>> this class. Game dev looks like a popular way of getting into coding and I
>> think it's because of the payoff at the end where you get to play your own
>> game. I looked over the book and it has the kind of projects that people
>> would sincerely enjoy working on. Overall I think we will have the most fun
>> with that book.
>>
>> I'm picturing the class as a beginner's intro to programming, with Python
>> as the language of choice and Invent With Python as the book of choice. I'm
>> down for running the classes. If anyone else is interested in tag-teaming
>> it, or if people want to come and talk about specialized topics
>> intermittently, I would be down for that too.
>>
>> Daniel, I have questions for you about what you've covered so far...maybe
>> we should take that conversation off the NB mailing list?
>>
>>
>> Adit
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:06 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Many thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2010-10-05 at 10:21 -0700, Daniel C. Silverstein wrote:
>>> > The examples in Dive Into Python are needlessly complex, and, in some
>>> > cases, hopelessly outdated.  Also, like Think Python, I find the order
>>> > of topics to be questionable.
>>> >
>>> > Zed Shaw has an amusing and vitriolic rant re: Dive Into Python here:
>>> > http://oppugn.us/posts/1272050135.html
>>> > I don't necessarily agree with the entire rant, but I agree with the
>>> > spirit of it.
>>> >
>>> > (Dan)
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 10:15 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I'd love to know your take on Dive into Python.
>>> > > Can you summarize?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, 2010-10-05 at 09:30 -0700, Daniel C. Silverstein wrote:
>>> > >> I should point out that, over time, I became dissatisfied with Think
>>> > >> Python and Dive into Python.  I have not used Al's book so I can't
>>> > >> comment on it for good or bad.  More recently I've been using the
>>> > >> Google Python Class curriculum available here:
>>> > >> http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/
>>> > >>
>>> > >> (Dan)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:13 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >   The Monday night Python class began as a SF-LUG Python
>>> > >> > study group with Asheesh as mentor. Asheesh left the
>>> > >> > region to set up openhatch.org and Daniel took over,
>>> > >> > formalizing the meeting somewhat as a class with teacher,
>>> > >> > and has hung in there for over a year.
>>> > >> >   You can change the approach as you see fit. You might
>>> > >> > take it on with someone else to share the mentoring or
>>> > >> > lecture role or revert to study group format by reducing
>>> > >> > the role of the mentor or whatever. If you share the role,
>>> > >> > you have the plus side of better continuity (each mentor
>>> > >> > can take a break) but the with price of keeping in sync
>>> > >> > with each other. There's at least one other NB member
>>> > >> > who's got very good Python skills with an aptitude for
>>> > >> > teaching.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >   I believe there are two main aspects to support:
>>> > >> > * provide real-world, simple examples that demand that
>>> > >> >  attendees think out the problem solution in terms of
>>> > >> >  Python language features and Pythonic techniques.
>>> > >> > * accommodate stone beginners and also people who are
>>> > >> >  approaching intermediate levels. The Dive into Python
>>> > >> >  book is available on line and might work for both
>>> > >> >  groups. Al Sweigart's book, Invent Your Own Computer
>>> > >> >  Games with Python, is currently in the Turing room
>>> > >> >  and I believe has been used in the Python class; it's
>>> > >> >  certainly suitable for beginners and to some degree
>>> > >> >  to extending Python skills. The book that Asheesh
>>> > >> >  first chose as a basis for the group is Python for
>>> > >> >  Software Design: How to Think Like a Computer
>>> > >> >  Scientist and for a while, at least, Daniel stuck
>>> > >> >  with it.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > http://diveintopython.org/
>>> > >> > http://inventwithpython.com/
>>> > >> > http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >   (my opinions: ) I and a few others have had some
>>> > >> > objections to parts of the Think Python text. I'd not use
>>> > >> > it in favor of Al's book and Dive into Python.
>>> > >> >   I think sticking to the current schedule (Monday
>>> > >> > evenings from 6:30 to 8:00) is important.
>>> > >> >   There are several Python groups in the bay area, and
>>> > >> > one or more of their members might be willing to share
>>> > >> > the leader role or come in for an occasional lecture or
>>> > >> > point you to examples at times you find your own well dry.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > http://www.pygamesf.org/
>>> > >> > http://www.pywebsf.org/
>>> > >> > http://www.baypiggies.net/
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > On Mon, 2010-10-04 at 23:56 -0700, aditya bhargava wrote:
>>> > >> >> I have a fair amount of experience in the language, but I've
>>> never
>>> > >> >> been to one of these classes. What are they usually like? I can
>>> > >> >> volunteer to make up cheat sheets or talk about specialized
>>> topics if
>>> > >> >> there's interest in that. Off the top of my head, I could talk
>>> about:
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >> - scientific computing in Python
>>> > >> >> - working with Django
>>> > >> >> - writing modules in C++ using Boost::Python and other
>>> alternatives
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >> Adit
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >> On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Daniel C. Silverstein
>>> > >> >> <cubes at ghosthacked.net> wrote:
>>> > >> >>         Howdy,
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>         Would anyone be interested in taking over teaching Python
>>> > >> >>         class at
>>> > >> >>         Noisebridge going forward?  Python is one of the longest
>>> > >> >>         running
>>> > >> >>         classes at Noisebridge, and I've personally been teaching
>>> it
>>> > >> >>         for the
>>> > >> >>         better part of the last year and a half.  I think it may
>>> be
>>> > >> >>         time for
>>> > >> >>         me to move on to other pursuits, but I'd rather not see
>>> the
>>> > >> >>         class die.
>>> > >> >>          Historically, Python class has been on Monday evenings
>>> from
>>> > >> >>         6:30 to
>>> > >> >>         8:00, but if anyone is interested in teaching it, I'm
>>> sure
>>> > >> >>         he/she
>>> > >> >>         would be welcome to reschedule.
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>         (Dan)
>>> > >> >>         _______________________________________________
>>> > >> >>         Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > >> >>         Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > >> >>
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >>
>>> > >> >> --
>>> > >> >> wefoundland.com
>>> > >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> > >> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > >> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>>> > >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> > >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> wefoundland.com
>>
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>>
>


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