[Noisebridge-discuss] personal computers at Noisebridge (was Re: Missing Green Bike /w Red Grips.)
jim
jim at systemateka.com
Fri Feb 4 17:54:59 UTC 2011
after all the shit you've stood up to, patrick
(and bravo to you for that!), you should have some
sympathy with anyone who's a target, even isky.
unless you can really claim to know him and his
activities well, stfu, please. this kind of
criticism is bad for us all.
it seems to me that we need to be as accepting
as we can of each other as a matter of policy. if
you are experiencing some kind of negative effect
on your activities, you should certainly speak up
and we should all try to support efforts to resolve
problems (this is the spirit of consensus, by the
way).
On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 08:46 -0800, Patrick Keys wrote:
> The exact issue with Isky is the implicit lack of consideration for
> others. Nobody else simultaneously spends more time at Noisebridge and
> contributes less. And then he has the inconsideration to both leave his
> personal gaming computer taking up public space at our non-profit and
> also bring people in there to sleep. Regardless of what he has on his
> couchsurfing page, I know for a fact that he has offered to let the
> couchsurfers sleep there several times. That he only posts to the list
> when his stuff is missing or the topic is about him just further shows
> the lack of consideration for others.
>
> This thread seems to boil down to "he should move his stuff" versus
> "work around him". Nobody should have to work around anybody at the
> public non-profit that we all donate our time and money to use. Nobody
> cares about people not working on anything at Noisebridge. Noisebridge
> is also about learning. I go up to Noisebridge all the time just to
> listen in on what's being worked on, learn about new stuff, and meet
> like-minded people.
>
> The concern is not Isky being at Noisebridge at all. The concern is
> Isky squating in one spot with his personal gaming computer for several
> months and relying on the politeness of others to work around him.
> Instead of relying on the politeness of others to work around him, Isky
> should either donate that computer to the space or take it home. Either
> way, both the computer and Isky should not be using that public
> classroom as a personal little office.
>
> And since Isky himself brought it up in this thread:
> The only time I have ever asked Isky to talk to his guests rather than
> talking to them myself is when he has personally brought people to
> Noisebridge to sleep there, not for any other reason. I politely
> requested to Isky in private that he should ask his guests to get their
> stuff and go to his place, that it was obvious that they were there just
> to sleep, and they shouldn't sleep there. He told me to tell them
> myself. So I told Isky that since he brought them there, and they were
> there because of him, that it would be more appropriate if he asked them
> to leave.
>
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
> On 2/4/2011 3:46 AM, Isky Wordsworth wrote:
> > oh my god Noisebridge, I love you, I'm in tears I've been laughing so hard,
> > as is almost always the case, this is going much better than I expected,
> >
> > naysayers: you think EYE AM unproductive? Do i spend hours every day
> > shit talking people on the internet? No, i walk around my world,
> > including noisebridge, making people feel better about their day and
> > showing them where to find the things they need cause you're all sitting
> > here foaming at the mouth getting your keyboards all soggy, when have I
> > EVER been in your way? *shut up and hack*.
> >
> > not to mention to the people always trying to push everyone around (i
> > admit some need to be pushed a little, though I'm trying to convince you
> > I'm not the sort), do you have any idea how many people have cried on my
> > shoulders in YOUR hackerspace? do you know how nice it feels to be there
> > as a completely positive supportive emotional resource for another
> > hacker? or are ya too busy trying to make them cry in the first place?
> >
> > yaysayers: PLEASE! feel free to leave me more kind words, you guys have
> > had me giggling and feeling nice all evening,
> >
> >
> > @Patrick... wHat?!?! are you Completely sightless? almost everything
> > you perceive is completely inverted and confounding, are you getting
> > your information out of a random sentence generator? Me Antisocial? and
> > What's all this about permission? What am i running a kindergarten in
> > Turing? quit coming over to me to tell me five times that you're older
> > than me and that you're afraid to talk to my friends because
> > "it's inappropriate for a male of my age to talk to a female of that
> > age", where are you getting this stuff?
> >
> > @Andy
> >
> > "I have tried to talk to Isky about this issue. He's been unwilling to
> > communicate about it."
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy, we have exchanged maybe thirty sentences ever, in like two
> > conversations, initiated by me (in which you've been incredibly helpful,
> > thank you!). Otherwise, we seem to have mutally avoided interaction more
> > thoroughly than i thought possible. What are you talking about?When did
> > you ever ask me about the computer? It's perfectly possible that i
> > forgot. in that case I'm sorry for seeming to have avoided the subject,
> > its not something I wanted to upset anyone over.
> >
> > " I have heard from at least two other community
> >
> > members who've also tried to discuss it with him and gotten blown off."
> >
> > Shannon and another have both advised me to "move it", i engaged them
> > both in a logistical conversation of where and for what purpose and
> > neither could come up with enough to want to continue the conversation
> > with me, which i was not done talking about, effectively, in fact
> > blowing ME off! To be frank! I am sick of you people blowing me off all
> > the time! Find someone else next time you're in the mood. Worrying about
> > when you'll get to blow me off again
> > all the time must be exhausting and there MUST be SOMETHING else you
> > enjoy doing...?
> >
> > AND YOU TWO, please don't confuse a SUGGESTION with a REQUEST, I have
> > never been asked to move my computer. It's a total of 4 people it
> > bothers, and those 4 people are rarely in the space! Yet when they
> > finally come around they spend their time having a tantrum about me off
> > completely out of the way of anything they could be doing?
> >
> > @Al
> > man, why do i never get to hear any of this out of mouth? i always got
> > to read your frustration second hand,
> >
> > how are organizing/cleaning the kitchen, cooking with/for people,
> > making tea for everyone, repairing shirts, jackets, headphones,
> > &laptops, spreading the word of hackerspaces, running the lockpicking
> > class three weeks in a row, making sure as many people as i can affect
> > (who havent already decided im their mortal enemy) are smiling/laughing,
> > teaching people how to solder/use the sewing machine/repair their
> > stuff/speak spanish/make a decent bowl of labne etc not legitimate
> > projects? what the fuck is a fucking project?? Albert have you have got
> > that word tattooed to your eyelids? has it completely lost its meaning?
> > i dont understand what parameters it defines, do i need to build a 1:1
> > Hanging Gardens of Babylon out of macaroni sculpture to impress you? if
> > not so extreme, why draw a line at all?
> >
> > I'd like to have my word taken when I say that I ALWAYS ask if I can get
> > out of the way of anyone whom i look like i even might be in the way of.
> > Not ot mention CONSTANTLY asking people what i can help them with around
> > the space. I am a very thoughtful, purposefully conscientious and
> > attemptedly empathetic participant of the space. Because of my
> > extraversion disease, I can't not engage lost looking people and I'm a
> > big reason people ever find the classrooms in the first place! I've
> > given more tours, found more needed/lost tools, washed more dishes, and
> > swept more floors at noisebridge than anyone in the last few months
> > ('cept Al). You haters come in once every two weeks and see me looking
> > out the window for a minute, you make a mental note of it, convince
> > yourself that i haven't done an ounce of helping anybody ever over and
> > over until you can't remember what it was that you were actually mad
> > about and then blog about it? Sounds super productive!
> >
> > Who exactly avoids turing because I'm in there? All the people who've
> > come to it looking like they wanted to stay for more than a minute did,
> > and all who didn't didn't, can we stop speculating? seriously point them
> > out, have them ask me to stop being so scary/smelly/vicious/satanically
> > unpleasant to be around while I'm doing my french homework/ or playing
> > trackmania so AntaGoNizIngly. Do you have any idea how many people were
> > thankful there was a computer sitting there for them to be able to
> > participate in the class with (the 88% of the time the computer is
> > freely available as first come first serve)?
> >
> > ah fuck, look what you made me do, wall of text when i could be
> > sleeping, whoops
> >
> > Isky <3's you noisebridge. Sorry for partying.
> >
> >
> > save the disc list for interesting, new, at least slightly informative
> > topics
> > instead of smearing (my) name/s around in a circle all day every day XD
> >
> > oh and Liz I'd love to help teach that class,
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:41 AM, aestetix aestetix <aestetix at gmail.com
> > <mailto:aestetix at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > The fundamental fallacy with declaring excellence is that, because
> > everyone has a different view, any action has both excellence and
> > un-excellent qualities to it. I feel one of the points of us using
> > this as our one "rule" is to help remind people that in knee-deep
> > drama, there always *is* a positive way to look at things.
> >
> > This also means that, even if we got the entire membership to agree
> > on something, or even communicate with each other at all, it would
> > be forced and trite at best. Further, some people would feel
> > pressured to "agree" by others, and rather than voicing their actual
> > opinion they'd go along with the crowd to avoid conflict.
> >
> > In any case, what I feel is most excellent right now is finishing my
> > ice-cream while listening to Mozart and watching porn, and enjoying
> > majestic mental images.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 1:25 AM, Albert Sweigart <asweigart at gmail.com
> > <mailto:asweigart at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > * Isky isn't on trial. Some people have a problem with his behavior
> > and are discussing it on the email list. That's all.
> >
> > * This is specifically about Isky, and specifically about him
> > keeping
> > his desktop in the Turing classroom on a long term basis.
> >
> > * Personally, I think if the membership came together, decided if
> > keeping personal desktops in the classrooms was excellent
> > behavior or
> > not with everyone having an equal say, and then wrote this decision
> > down, we could avoid a lot of drama. Otherwise this email thread
> > will
> > continue until everyone is emotionally drained, nothing will be
> > resolved, and this or a problem like it will flare up again in a few
> > months.
> >
> > -Al
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 12:43 AM, Praveen Sinha
> > <dmhomee at gmail.com <mailto:dmhomee at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > Urgh... I can't beleive I'm getting sucked in to drama, but...
> > >
> > > Seriously is Isky on trial or something? Is he Mubarak? If
> > we are talking
> > > about Isky in a huge email drama thread, then who else are we
> > going to talk
> > > about next??? Noisebridge is and should be an open space
> > for people to
> > > interact in their own ways. I realize that people are coming
> > forward to
> > > defend him, but he shouldn't /have/ to be defended.
> > >
> > > Shunning people from noisebridge because the don't fit a
> > social mold will
> > > only ensure the alienation of the best and brightest.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Josh Myer
> > <josh at joshisanerd.com <mailto:josh at joshisanerd.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 6:47 PM, jim <jim at well.com
> > <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> isky shares his computer with others, and seems to
> > >>> me pretty freely.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> We don't have rules, but it seems like the general pattern
> > in the past has
> > >> been "Keep your stuff on your shelf, or, if it doesn't fit
> > on your shelf,
> > >> label it." A shuttle PC will fit on a shelf, easily.
> > >> It seems like there's another underlying issue people are
> > skirting around,
> > >> which is that Isky is constantly at the space, and rarely
> > seems to be doing
> > >> anything beyond hanging out.
> > >> --
> > >> Josh Myer 415.230.9791 <tel:+14152309791> <-- NOTE: New number!
> > >> josh at joshisanerd.com <mailto:josh at joshisanerd.com>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
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