[Noisebridge-discuss] i object to lockers for noisebridge

Fri Feb 18 01:08:06 UTC 2011

Jim has made all the points I would have.

-Al

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>    Thanks for the reply. I don't see how using a locker
> for storing stuff is different from using a shelf. it's
> just a place to store stuff, just like the member shelves.
> i.e. i don't see why a door matters, nor a lock, for that
> matter: i feel bound to treat stuff on member shelves as
> tho' it was locked anyway, a matter of "excellence".
>    adding member storage seems a good thing to me, tho'
> in moderation.
>    i'm okay with changes, even fairly drastic changes;
> seems in the spirit of the place. allow, accept, yada....
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 14:57 -0800, Jake wrote:
>> one problem is that it is a totally unprecedented privatization of space
>> at noisebridge, and should be discussed at a meeting in person.
>>
>> another problem is that it subtracts from the public space at noisebridge
>> unnecessarily;  there are plenty of abandoned shelves available for people
>> to make use of for storing their stuff.
>>
>> it would be a big change for noisebridge to have private lockers.
>>
>> -jake
>>
>> > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:39 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>    i don't get it. how come shelves with doors (lockers)
>> >> are a problem? i don't see that has anything to do with
>> >> privacy or anonymity or anything else other than maybe
>> >> keeping stuff from falling out. we have member shelves
>> >> so that people can keep parts of their projects safe
>> >> from repurposing. the lockers seem to do that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 04:49 -0800, Jake wrote:
>> >>> I have stated before and i'll say again that I think that there are plenty
>> >>> of shelves which are not currently in use, and can be re-assigned by a
>> >>> team of non-contraversial members in order to clear up shelf spaces.
>> >>>
>> >>> I think it has been decided in the past that Noisebridge is not a place
>> >>> for people to securely store their stuff, and that the most someone can
>> >>> expect is a shelf upon which they can deposit their items with their name
>> >>> upon the shelf.  To diverge from this would be fundamental enough that it
>> >>> would have to be discussed at a meeting, and in the interest of informed
>> >>> consent, announced as an agenda topic ahead of time so that people could
>> >>> participate.
>> >>>
>> >>> Personally I feel that use of publicly available space at noisebridge for
>> >>> the private storage of peoples' property is not only a negative use of the
>> >>> space, but subtracts from the magic of communalism that has been achieved.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regarding the decay of civility and reason in threads leading to this, I
>> >>> remind everyone that our most important rule is BE EXCELLENT TO EACH
>> >>> OTHER.  This is a rule.  If what you're saying is intended to fuck with
>> >>> someone, you are BREAKING the ONLY RULE.  It is up to each and every
>> >>> person to follow that rule.  Do not fuck with the only rule we have.
>> >>>
>> >>> And as a reminder, I want to say explicitly, that I feel strongly enough
>> >>> about the lockers and have observed enough other people expressing similar
>> >>> feelings about them, that if someone wants to get lockers they should put
>> >>> that topic on the agenda of the next meeting (by posting so to the list)
>> >>> so that we can discuss it properly as a group.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you for reading.  Also, +1 on what Snail says below.
>> >>> -jake
>> >>>
>> >>> Patrick Keys <citizenkeys at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> The lockers would be opaque.  I think everybody at Noisebridge values
>> >>>> their right of anonymity.  Not worrying about other people seeing what's
>> >>>> on your personal shelf or messing with it seems like a benefit.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Snail snailtsunami at gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> What do people want to store at noisebridge that they really need to keep
>> >>> hidden, which can't be stored on a harddrive? That's kind of worrisome.
>> >>>
>> >>> Maybe an open, public space is not the best place to keep private,
>> >>> personal possessions. -- People need to keep their tools and whatknot for
>> >>> hacking in the space, but need they be SECRET? If you're going to use it
>> >>> in the space, where it will be seen by everyone, why does it have to be
>> >>> STORED in secrecy? -- And if it's not going to be used in the space, why
>> >>> is it there, taking up space in a locker?
>> >>>
>> >>> Plus, this is about right to privacy, not anonymity -- a shelf is
>> >>> anonymous but not private, unless you put your name on your belongings (or
>> >>> someone dusts for fingerprints and has a copy of yours to match; DNA
>> >>> TESTS!!). If you don't believe me, just look at the fact that there are
>> >>> constantly tons of possessions swirling around the space whose owners are
>> >>> unknown, sometimes resulting to e-mails asking who has borrowed their
>> >>> stuff, even though everything is in plain view. This is very much not
>> >>> about valuing peoples anonymity and more about concern that people are
>> >>> doing secret things in an open space. You won't necessarily reveal
>> >>> someone's secret identity by stealing their wire cutters or PS2.
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't think anyone has a guarantee of privacy at noisebridge -- if you
>> >>> are there, someone will drop by and look over your shoulder and ask what's
>> >>> going on, because that's why you are there (to have people talk to you and
>> >>> get an excuse to talk about your project). Lockers wouldn't really
>> >>> guarantee privacy unless everyone TRUSTED the person using the locker. We
>> >>> only have what privacy we do when people are considerate AND trust we are
>> >>> not doing something unsavory; but if people were concerned someone was
>> >>> storing something unsavory in a locker, it wouldn't be long before someone
>> >>> picked the lock or forced it open just to be safe.
>> >>>
>> >>> Most importantly, to me, locked lockers would make me feel less safe
>> >>> because suddenly part of the open space is not open. I feel safe at
>> >>> noisebridge because EVERYTHING is open (save the bathrooms, for ~15
>> >>> minutes at a time), and anything bad that could happen to someone or
>> >>> anything unsafe which would be stored could be found by the community, as
>> >>> people eventually wade through the piles and piles of junk.
>> >>>
>> >>> (To be honest, you're probably guaranteed a good amount of privacy if you
>> >>> leave something under a pile of junk and people are too APATHETIC to check
>> >>> -- but it still gives people the option of securing their own surroundings
>> >>> and safety.)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Plus, people tend to leave a lot of crap at the space and never throw it
>> >>> out, so periodically the locks would just have to be broken so the
>> >>> contents could be tossed as the lockers just give people a chance to
>> >>> exercise even more of their packrat tendencies.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> You know, if anything, I would describe noisebridge as a hole for packrats
>> >>>> _> maybe giving people the chance to store even MORE things at the space
>> >>> is the opposite of what the community needs. I feel like half of the space
>> >>> is already consumed by objects: the members' shelves area, the area behind
>> >>> those shelves (is that more members' shelves?), the entire wall with the
>> >>> windows facing Mission St., the full wall of bikes, the construction
>> >>> things in the kitchen, more shelves in the not-Turing classroom, stuff by
>> >>> the tea room storing things for the kitchen (because right beside the
>> >>> kitchen is storing construction things).... Now that I think about it,
>> >>> where the hell are these lockers going to stand among all this other
>> >>> stuff?
>> >>>
>> >>> Of course, it's been a month or so since I've been in the space, so maybe
>> >>> some of this is cleared up or organized by now (hahaha yeah right, I will
>> >>> buy everyone BEER* if you can make me eat those words).
>> >>>
>> >>> *Not guaranteed to be expensive or good-tasting beer. I'm on a budget.
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> >>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________ Noisebridge-discuss mailing list Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>