[Noisebridge-discuss] i object to lockers for noisebridge

Thu Feb 17 23:30:08 UTC 2011

    Thanks for the reply. I don't see how using a locker 
for storing stuff is different from using a shelf. it's 
just a place to store stuff, just like the member shelves. 
i.e. i don't see why a door matters, nor a lock, for that 
matter: i feel bound to treat stuff on member shelves as 
tho' it was locked anyway, a matter of "excellence". 
    adding member storage seems a good thing to me, tho' 
in moderation. 
    i'm okay with changes, even fairly drastic changes; 
seems in the spirit of the place. allow, accept, yada.... 


On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 14:57 -0800, Jake wrote:
> one problem is that it is a totally unprecedented privatization of space 
> at noisebridge, and should be discussed at a meeting in person.
> 
> another problem is that it subtracts from the public space at noisebridge 
> unnecessarily;  there are plenty of abandoned shelves available for people 
> to make use of for storing their stuff.
> 
> it would be a big change for noisebridge to have private lockers.
> 
> -jake
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:39 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>    i don't get it. how come shelves with doors (lockers)
> >> are a problem? i don't see that has anything to do with
> >> privacy or anonymity or anything else other than maybe
> >> keeping stuff from falling out. we have member shelves
> >> so that people can keep parts of their projects safe
> >> from repurposing. the lockers seem to do that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 2011-02-17 at 04:49 -0800, Jake wrote:
> >>> I have stated before and i'll say again that I think that there are plenty
> >>> of shelves which are not currently in use, and can be re-assigned by a
> >>> team of non-contraversial members in order to clear up shelf spaces.
> >>>
> >>> I think it has been decided in the past that Noisebridge is not a place
> >>> for people to securely store their stuff, and that the most someone can
> >>> expect is a shelf upon which they can deposit their items with their name
> >>> upon the shelf.  To diverge from this would be fundamental enough that it
> >>> would have to be discussed at a meeting, and in the interest of informed
> >>> consent, announced as an agenda topic ahead of time so that people could
> >>> participate.
> >>>
> >>> Personally I feel that use of publicly available space at noisebridge for
> >>> the private storage of peoples' property is not only a negative use of the
> >>> space, but subtracts from the magic of communalism that has been achieved.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding the decay of civility and reason in threads leading to this, I
> >>> remind everyone that our most important rule is BE EXCELLENT TO EACH
> >>> OTHER.  This is a rule.  If what you're saying is intended to fuck with
> >>> someone, you are BREAKING the ONLY RULE.  It is up to each and every
> >>> person to follow that rule.  Do not fuck with the only rule we have.
> >>>
> >>> And as a reminder, I want to say explicitly, that I feel strongly enough
> >>> about the lockers and have observed enough other people expressing similar
> >>> feelings about them, that if someone wants to get lockers they should put
> >>> that topic on the agenda of the next meeting (by posting so to the list)
> >>> so that we can discuss it properly as a group.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for reading.  Also, +1 on what Snail says below.
> >>> -jake
> >>>
> >>> Patrick Keys <citizenkeys at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The lockers would be opaque.  I think everybody at Noisebridge values
> >>>> their right of anonymity.  Not worrying about other people seeing what's
> >>>> on your personal shelf or messing with it seems like a benefit.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Snail snailtsunami at gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What do people want to store at noisebridge that they really need to keep
> >>> hidden, which can't be stored on a harddrive? That's kind of worrisome.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe an open, public space is not the best place to keep private,
> >>> personal possessions. -- People need to keep their tools and whatknot for
> >>> hacking in the space, but need they be SECRET? If you're going to use it
> >>> in the space, where it will be seen by everyone, why does it have to be
> >>> STORED in secrecy? -- And if it's not going to be used in the space, why
> >>> is it there, taking up space in a locker?
> >>>
> >>> Plus, this is about right to privacy, not anonymity -- a shelf is
> >>> anonymous but not private, unless you put your name on your belongings (or
> >>> someone dusts for fingerprints and has a copy of yours to match; DNA
> >>> TESTS!!). If you don't believe me, just look at the fact that there are
> >>> constantly tons of possessions swirling around the space whose owners are
> >>> unknown, sometimes resulting to e-mails asking who has borrowed their
> >>> stuff, even though everything is in plain view. This is very much not
> >>> about valuing peoples anonymity and more about concern that people are
> >>> doing secret things in an open space. You won't necessarily reveal
> >>> someone's secret identity by stealing their wire cutters or PS2.
> >>>
> >>> I don't think anyone has a guarantee of privacy at noisebridge -- if you
> >>> are there, someone will drop by and look over your shoulder and ask what's
> >>> going on, because that's why you are there (to have people talk to you and
> >>> get an excuse to talk about your project). Lockers wouldn't really
> >>> guarantee privacy unless everyone TRUSTED the person using the locker. We
> >>> only have what privacy we do when people are considerate AND trust we are
> >>> not doing something unsavory; but if people were concerned someone was
> >>> storing something unsavory in a locker, it wouldn't be long before someone
> >>> picked the lock or forced it open just to be safe.
> >>>
> >>> Most importantly, to me, locked lockers would make me feel less safe
> >>> because suddenly part of the open space is not open. I feel safe at
> >>> noisebridge because EVERYTHING is open (save the bathrooms, for ~15
> >>> minutes at a time), and anything bad that could happen to someone or
> >>> anything unsafe which would be stored could be found by the community, as
> >>> people eventually wade through the piles and piles of junk.
> >>>
> >>> (To be honest, you're probably guaranteed a good amount of privacy if you
> >>> leave something under a pile of junk and people are too APATHETIC to check
> >>> -- but it still gives people the option of securing their own surroundings
> >>> and safety.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Plus, people tend to leave a lot of crap at the space and never throw it
> >>> out, so periodically the locks would just have to be broken so the
> >>> contents could be tossed as the lockers just give people a chance to
> >>> exercise even more of their packrat tendencies.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You know, if anything, I would describe noisebridge as a hole for packrats
> >>>> _> maybe giving people the chance to store even MORE things at the space
> >>> is the opposite of what the community needs. I feel like half of the space
> >>> is already consumed by objects: the members' shelves area, the area behind
> >>> those shelves (is that more members' shelves?), the entire wall with the
> >>> windows facing Mission St., the full wall of bikes, the construction
> >>> things in the kitchen, more shelves in the not-Turing classroom, stuff by
> >>> the tea room storing things for the kitchen (because right beside the
> >>> kitchen is storing construction things).... Now that I think about it,
> >>> where the hell are these lockers going to stand among all this other
> >>> stuff?
> >>>
> >>> Of course, it's been a month or so since I've been in the space, so maybe
> >>> some of this is cleared up or organized by now (hahaha yeah right, I will
> >>> buy everyone BEER* if you can make me eat those words).
> >>>
> >>> *Not guaranteed to be expensive or good-tasting beer. I'm on a budget.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>
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> >>
> >
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