[Noisebridge-discuss] Patrick Key and NB Incident of 2/23/2011 notes.
liz at bookmaniac.org
Wed Feb 23 17:04:54 UTC 2011
Thanks for dealing with all that so early in the morning, and acting so
quickly after the last couple of days of intense discussion about what
to do. It's impressive! Also, count me as undersigned for the email
about consensus to ban Patrick.
I'd like to say again I think calling cops on people is for situations
of immediate harm, threats of violence, or actual assault.
Organizing to intervene in someone's bad behavior and things like
ostracism or banning are extreme. Here it feels like they were applied
at the point before there is a worse incident. I think that's good. No
one takes it lightly.
On 2/23/11 7:47 AM, Robert Chu wrote:
> (05:48:45 AM) The topic for #noisebridge is: https://www.noisebridge.net/ |
> Noisebridge still needs more members to improve cash flow | Coming up next
> week: coherent photons, then involuntary fire extinguisher testing | Today
> in noisebridge history, someone learned the difference between a mutex and a
> (05:48:45 AM) leguin.freenode.net: (notice) [freenode-info] why register and
> identify? your IRC nick is how people know you.
> (05:48:53 AM) rayc: Hello Noisebridge Goodmorning
> (05:48:58 AM) rayc: Is anybody on????
> (05:49:09 AM) lilia: ...
> (05:49:17 AM) rayc: Patrick just showed up
> (05:50:23 AM) rayc: Before entering he peered through the port whole to see
> if we were here. He then entered furtively despite being expressly told that
> he has been banned from the premises by formal action of the membership.
> (05:50:46 AM) rayc: He claimed not to have received the email notification,
> sent by Rachel at 12:42am.
> (05:51:37 AM) rayc: Four of us acting as defenders of the space, that unless
> he exited the building and complied strictly with the instructions in the
> email, that we would be forced the police.
> (05:52:25 AM) aestetix: oh boy
> (05:52:58 AM) niggachu: Defenders of the space sounds gay and lame. Call
> yourselves instead Tribune of the Membership and you don't need to call
> other, outside police.
> (05:52:58 AM) noisebot: niggachu, you have notes! [05:28] <tecra> like this
> (05:53:55 AM) rayc: Before exiting he checked his phone maybe pretended to
> read the email-snorted loudly, in what seems to us convey his contempt for
> the decision, the people who made it and the space.
> (05:54:07 AM) rayc: Defenders of the space - Paul V.
> (05:54:17 AM) aestetix: defenders of the space?
> (05:54:21 AM) aestetix: is this on the mailing list or something?
> (05:54:58 AM) rayc: He then stated: "I have a printer and a microwave that I
> am going to take away."
> (05:55:00 AM) rayc: Not yet
> (05:55:17 AM) rayc: Then he stormed out.
> (05:57:09 AM) rayc: We believe that since he gave the aforementioned items
> to NB in an effort to curry popularity with the membership. That he is not
> entitled to take the items away and he should be formally notified that any
> attempt to do so will result in prosecution to theft. - Paul V.
> (05:57:43 AM) rayc: Note: These notes will be included in an email.
> (06:00:13 AM) rayc: So Patrick has returned
> (06:00:35 AM) lilia: yeah… pretty sure when you donate something to a 501c3,
> the charity then owns the thing, and thus taking it back is legally theft.
> no different from breaking open the donation boxes and making off w/ cash.
> (06:00:58 AM) rayc: John is talking to him now
> (06:01:01 AM) niggachu: It's not his fault. He has been driven insane by a
> punch deficiency.
> (06:01:14 AM) niggachu: kind of like scurvy only it makes you a jerk
> (06:01:28 AM) rayc: I see
> (06:01:51 AM) niggachu: maybe someone should ... loan him a punch
> (06:02:03 AM) rayc: As John being the standing member. John is taking
> (06:02:13 AM) rayc: he just walked out with the microwave
> (06:02:40 AM) lilia: *visions of the kool-aid guy busting through a wall and
> punching patrick*
> (06:02:48 AM) lilia: "Oh yeah!
> (06:03:06 AM) niggachu: robert1: As Guardian of the Space and Tribune of the
> Nonpaying Nonmember Freeloaders, it is your job to tackle him and retrieve
> the stolen property.
> (06:03:32 AM) aestetix: you know
> (06:03:35 AM) rayc: Paul V. here taking over
> (06:03:42 AM) aestetix: I used to make jokes about forming a fake police
> unit within Noisebridge
> (06:03:51 AM) aestetix: glad to see evolution has taken its natural course
> (06:04:17 AM) rayc: Robert has retired as stenographer and has graduated to
> direct action
> (06:04:19 AM) niggachu: You were joking?
> (06:04:20 AM) niggachu: oh.
> (06:04:28 AM) lilia: Noisepolice?
> (06:04:41 AM) SarahEmm: lilia: i think convention would dictate
> Policebridge, no? :)
> (06:04:46 AM) lilia: no no... Noisebrigade.
> (06:05:13 AM) rayc: Jonathan Ellis has followed Patrick out in an effort to
> talk down a rather tense situation here at brigade hq
> (06:05:14 AM) noisebot: What Would Patrick Do?
> (06:05:58 AM) lilia: i <3 noisebot
> (06:06:06 AM) niggachu: Nolice.
> (06:06:17 AM) rayc: Robert is manning the front gate to prevent Patrick from
> re-entering and stealing more NB property
> (06:06:48 AM) rayc: What is Al's number?
> (06:07:03 AM) lilia: niggachu: we may have bedbugs but at least we have no(
> (06:09:06 AM) niggachu: robert1: In all honesty, patrick is currently
> walking down mission st. near 18th at 6 in the morning when it's still dark
> and the crackheads are still up. If he were to arrive home +bruise -wallet
> and afraid of that area, that would be ... totally expected and
> understandable in every way and completely unremarkable.
> (06:10:15 AM) rayc: Let's not get our hopes up.
> (06:10:48 AM) niggachu: raw hope has a long track record of being useless
> (06:11:00 AM) rayc: FYI, "Defenders of the Space" was a mocking reference to
> Henry VIII.
> (06:11:12 AM) rayc: Paul may be gay but he's not lame.
> (06:12:33 AM) niggachu: again, it's not a great part of town
> (06:12:44 AM) rayc: Patrick and Robert now at front gate
> (06:13:43 AM) rayc: Jonathan Ellis has been sent down to address the
> (06:20:07 AM) \Bill left the room (quit: Disconnected by services).
> (06:22:41 AM) Destri: Dramabridge
> (06:22:44 AM) rayc: Continuing negotiations at the front gate. Patrick
> refuses to return his key to the front gate.
> (06:24:41 AM) rayc: Jonathan has returned. Patrick still at front gate,
> blocked by Robert
> (06:24:52 AM) niggachu: http://s11.info/~/ponies.png
> (06:24:54 AM) noisebot: [Link Info] type: image/png, size: 123,113 bytes
> (06:24:57 AM) lilia: well i suppose we could change the locks but it would
> be quite expensive to replace all the keys out there.
> (06:25:23 AM) lilia: OMGPONIES
> (06:25:40 AM) niggachu: Incentive to move to numbered swipeycards so we can
> deactivate a single.
> (06:25:48 AM) rayc: Robert showing exceptional courage in dealing with that
> wimp Patrick
> (06:26:13 AM) Destri: is this the Lilia from sfnet back in tha day?
> (06:26:27 AM) niggachu: wait I thought courage was the bully-kryptonite, not
> (06:26:44 AM) lilia: destri: fraid not
> (06:26:46 AM) rayc: It's true that the hour is early: but four of us were
> having a consensus party to celebrate the wisdom of The Members.
> (06:27:00 AM) Destri: speaking of kryptonite, one of those locks might work
> on the gate.
> (06:27:02 AM) niggachu: Is 4 a quorum?
> (06:27:02 AM) rayc: And we working on important, time-sensitive stuff
> (06:27:23 AM) rayc: Until Patrick disrupted our vibe
> (06:27:25 AM) Destri: always room for more lilias
> (06:27:46 AM) lilia: daww :-)
> (06:28:37 AM) Destri: unless this Patrick is also from the Lockpicking
> group. heh
> (06:30:28 AM) Destri: I don't think that anybody has coughed up for a round
> lock-pick set though.
> (06:31:04 AM) runnerr0 [~runnerr0 at netops-174.sfo1.bitgravity.com] entered
> the room.
> (06:31:42 AM) rayc: Standoff at front gate continues.
> (06:32:28 AM) Destri: Social engineering-hack! "I am El Patrick-o, just here
> to check the microwave" /cheesy mustache
> (06:32:50 AM) Destri: the stuff he donated could be a really cheap way to
> get rid of him forever, actually.
> (06:33:29 AM) rayc: True, but since it's NB property we need consensus to
> give it to him, right?
> (06:34:03 AM) niggachu: It's a do-ocracy, and I don't think anyone will
> complain that you solved the problem without dragging them into it and
> dragging it ott for another month.u
> (06:34:15 AM) Destri: 6 AM consensus could be hard, yeah. Printer +
> microwave, 50 bucks of free crap from craigslist.
> (06:34:35 AM) Destri: "trade you your front gate key for this printer"
> (06:35:05 AM) lilia: i imagine most people would gladly trade one less
> printer for one less patrick… but do try to get the gate key.
> (06:35:13 AM) rayc: Well, it sounds as though Patrick called the police.
> (06:35:23 AM) aestetix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Harmony,_Indiana
> (06:35:24 AM) noisebot: [Link Info] title: New Harmony, Indiana - Wikipedia,
> the free encyclopedia
> (06:35:25 AM) aestetix: improve the mind
> (06:35:39 AM) niggachu: gate key is nb property and I don't see what his
> refusal to return it has to do with its retrieval.
> (06:35:59 AM) Destri: chatroom consensus? Aye
> (06:36:06 AM) lilia: jesus. is there a board member around/wakeable? they're
> gonna wanna talk to someone official.
> (06:36:17 AM) neurotech: Al?
> (06:36:24 AM) rayc: Well I asked for Al's number
> (06:36:34 AM) neurotech: I dont have their numbers
> (06:36:39 AM) lilia: anybody call him / find his number? i looked but
> couldnt find
> (06:36:41 AM) rayc: Nobody responded. I think Al is closest.
> (06:37:25 AM) rayc: Of course, responding to Patrick is not a high priority
> of the SFPD.
> (06:37:42 AM) lilia: lulz
> (06:38:22 AM) rayc: Robert continues to guard the gate.
> (06:39:14 AM) rigel: i wonder what he told the police
> (06:39:32 AM) lilia: ditto
> (06:39:35 AM) rigel: "there are some people i gave some stuff to and the
> dont like me anmore and wont give my stuff back!"
> (06:39:53 AM) niggachu: let's just tell the police that he's not allowed in
> the Get Rid Of Slimy girlS clubhouse any more since his operation.
> (06:39:56 AM) niggachu: er, her
> (06:40:58 AM) rayc: The police will tell him it is a civil matter.
> (06:41:56 AM) Destri: that New Harmony link. Looks a bit like a pentacle in
> the center of that town
> (06:43:30 AM) rayc: Jonathan has repeatedly informed him to contact Jason
> (06:44:04 AM) neurotech: unless anyone has any other ideas..
> (06:44:57 AM) neurotech: I will reply.. noisebridge is a 501c3 and removing
> donated property of value is not allowed
> (06:45:16 AM) rayc: Correct.
> (06:46:03 AM) rigel: he used the term "donated"
> (06:46:17 AM) rayc: Correct.
> (06:46:38 AM) niggachu: If you figure in the negative value of patrick and
> how that goes away with him the what does the printer become worth?
> (06:46:51 AM) neurotech: whois niggachu?
> (06:47:11 AM) rigel: niggachu: roughly -$16.4 million
> (06:47:17 AM) niggachu: I'm the black pokemon. Who are you?
> (06:48:08 AM) neurotech: I'm John/Jonathon referrred to above
> (06:48:16 AM) aestetix: john waters?
> (06:48:29 AM) rayc: His sense of humor is not that good.
> (06:48:31 AM) neurotech: no.. John Ellis
> (06:49:08 AM) niggachu: neurotech: Did you retrieve the front door key?
> (06:49:11 AM) rayc: Jonathan Ellis', that is.
> (06:49:16 AM) neurotech: not yet
> (06:49:17 AM) rayc: No, he did not.
> (06:49:22 AM) niggachu: Fail.
> (06:49:32 AM) lilia: the printer's value is not affected by patrick's value,
> but overall their sum is negative.
> (06:49:41 AM) lilia: will he trade the printer for the key?
> (06:50:20 AM) rigel: the printer was clearly a bribe, and therefore tied
> inextricably to patrick's value to the space
> (06:50:35 AM) niggachu: What would he trade the key for? What if we sing
> him a song of hate? Barbershop quartet style.
> (06:51:44 AM) rayc: On or off key?
> (06:52:03 AM) Destri: I tend to slide toward baritone as the night of
> drinking moves on.
> (06:53:29 AM) rayc: I know we are all in favor of saving trees but, if it is
> of interest, the printer at issue is the only one that actually works.
> (06:53:54 AM) niggachu: All I know is as the drinking continues not only
> does my singing get better, but also I become smarter and more attractive.
> (06:54:25 AM) Destri: you sure do!
> (06:54:28 AM) Destri: heh
> (06:54:33 AM) linguaz left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
> (06:54:47 AM) rigel: i still think its worth donating it to him in exchange
> for his key
> (06:55:02 AM) rigel: but then again i am not a frequent user of the space
> (06:56:10 AM) ***Destri is not really a paid member, nor a frequent user of
> the space.
> (06:56:14 AM) Destri: is it a Laser?
> (06:56:15 AM) rayc: There is strong sentiment in favor of swapping printer
> for key (he also is claiming a projector stand we can't find), but the now 3
> of us do not feel empowered to alienate NB property.
> (06:56:47 AM) rayc: We feel Patrick should follow the instructions in his
> email notice and contact Jason Dusek.
> (06:56:51 AM) niggachu: such as the key which you are allowing to walk out
> (06:57:03 AM) rayc: The key has already walked out.
> (06:57:30 AM) niggachu: Then, I am afraid that the emperor has already won.
> (06:57:38 AM) Destri: if he wanted to be a dick.. he could just make a copy
> of the key and then give it back to you.
> (06:57:57 AM) Destri: which makes some sorta electronic gate system sound
> better and better
> (06:57:59 AM) rayc: Correct. And may well have done so before coming over.
> (06:58:01 AM) SarahEmm: to be fair, the key bitting's on the wiki so it's
> not impossible to just make one if you wanted.
> (06:58:04 AM) rigel: i wouldnt put it past him that now since he knows you
> are going to want him to return the key, he will make a copy of it
> (06:58:10 AM) SarahEmm: (not that anyone would do that, of course <_< >_>)
> (06:58:15 AM) niggachu: And as soon as key shops open in an hr we must
> assume he has copied the key.
> (06:58:17 AM) rigel: oh. i forgot that
> (06:58:20 AM) niggachu: regardless of whether he has or not
> (06:58:40 AM) rigel: i am lagged
> (06:58:55 AM) rayc: Actually, I think he is sufficiently humiliated that he
> will not return once this drama comes to completion.
> (06:59:10 AM) Grievre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFztjgfDWDA
> (06:59:12 AM) noisebot: [Link Info] title: YouTube - Cat Laser Bowling
> (06:59:13 AM) Grievre: laser cat bowling
> (06:59:23 AM) lilia: truth. so not much we can doabout that. i say let him
> do what he likes. he's only digging himself a deeper hole. we can consense
> later on whether we'd like to pursue legal action to recover our property or
> just cut our losses and change the locks
> (06:59:49 AM) Destri: now, all we need is a laser printer hacked into a cat
> toy, for bowling purposes.
> (06:59:54 AM) Destri: and a cat
> (07:00:06 AM) rayc: I think he got the printer to print out his homework
> (07:00:57 AM) rigel: robert1: it didnt stop him from coming to nb once he
> was kicked out of hackerdojo or whatever other hackspaces hes been banned
> (07:01:15 AM) neurotech: he was kicked out of hacker dojo?
> (07:02:06 AM) rayc: The printer is a brand new HP LaserJet CP 1525nw color
> (07:02:09 AM) rigel: this is what i hear
> (07:03:06 AM) Grievre: who is this patrick and why was he banned?
> (07:03:15 AM) rayc: I (Paul V.) agree with lilia in that Patrick will do
> what he thinks best, which means he will just dig a deeper grave for himself
> (07:03:36 AM) lilia: grievre: long story. go read the discuss archives.
> (07:04:28 AM) Destri: atsa mighty nice printer
> (07:06:32 AM) Grievre: I have a printer I could donate to noisebridge if we
> lose that one. I don't know how much it compares in terms of value
> (07:06:37 AM) Grievre: it's a dell all-in-one printer-scanner-fax thing
> (07:06:54 AM) Grievre: on the other hand I keep saying I'm going to set it
> up and actually use it some day
> (07:07:41 AM) linguaz [~b79 at commonhouse.net] entered the room.
> (07:08:54 AM) rayc: Police here. Hold tight.
> (07:09:28 AM) Destri: I wanna Color Laser that'll do 11x17, the holy grail
> of printers.
> (07:09:28 AM) pm-: uh oh
> (07:09:33 AM) Destri: some day
> (07:09:33 AM) pm-: what is happen
> (07:09:57 AM) teardrop: all your base are blong to us?
> (07:10:32 AM) lilia: robert1: i'm only 4 blocks away if you need
> (07:14:06 AM) nharlotekk [~dkellogg at 184.108.40.206] entered the room.
> (07:14:19 AM) dr_jesus: Morning kids
> (07:14:20 AM) noisebot: dr_jesus, you have notes! [04:29] <niggachu> pony
> says it has no route to the doorbuzzer so it wouldn't buzz me into nb today.
> I had to ring the doorbell like a commoner!
> (07:14:27 AM) dr_jesus: Hmmmmmmmmm
> (07:14:44 AM) lilia: ready for your morning dose of patrick drama?
> (07:14:45 AM) dr_jesus: What's this about donated property? Of course we
> can dispose of donated property, it's totally legal
> (07:15:28 AM) dr_jesus: There's some paperwork you have to do but 1) it
> doesn't have to be done now and 2) all the situations which trigger
> paperwork only happen if someone's trying to write off the donation
> (07:15:44 AM) dr_jesus: and 3) it's optional if the object is <$500
> (07:15:53 AM) dr_jesus: Hey paul
> (07:16:50 AM) [ill]will left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
> (07:17:01 AM) Vrai [~vrai at 220.127.116.11] entered the room.
> (07:17:06 AM) rayc: Talking with officer
> (07:17:32 AM) rayc: Dr J good morning: do you approve swapping key for
> (07:18:00 AM) dr_jesus: I don't see why we need his key back at all
> (07:18:03 AM) dr_jesus: It's not like he can't get another one
> (07:18:49 AM) DrShiny [~rachel- at 18.104.22.168] entered the room.
> (07:19:05 AM) dr_jesus: But sure
> (07:19:53 AM) DrShiny: so i just got a call, police at nb called by patrick,
> stuff, etc
> (07:21:02 AM) lilia: yes… robert/paul has been giving us the play-by-play
> (07:21:39 AM) Vrai: Christ.
> (07:21:46 AM) dr_jesus: robert1: the magic words are "civil dispute"
> (07:22:03 AM) Destri: the key is symbolic of his agreement to never come
> back. I'm thinking.
> (07:22:12 AM) rayc: The problem is that Patrick has the receipt for the
> printer in the wallet
> (07:22:20 AM) dr_jesus: So give him the printer
> (07:22:27 AM) dr_jesus: It's not like we can't get one of the other ones
> (07:22:34 AM) rayc: We are disconnecting it as we speak.
> (07:22:40 AM) rayc: Here is the deal.
> (07:23:12 AM) rayc: Officer Milton will give Patrick the printer and
> strongly advise him to return key.
> (07:23:18 AM) rayc: in exchange.
> (07:23:57 AM) rayc: He recommends our lawyer serve notice on Patrick (i.e.,
> actually serve, not send email) that he is no longer allowed in space,.
> (07:24:34 AM) dr_jesus: Noted
> (07:24:49 AM) Vrai: robert1: Thank you for reporting on this.
> (07:25:18 AM) DrShiny: robert1: thanks so much for dealing with this
> (07:25:39 AM) jsgf [~jeremy at c-98-210-109-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] entered the
> (07:26:08 AM) DrShiny: i don't know if we have patrick's address to serve
> him any kind of notice
> (07:26:18 AM) Vrai: That too. I'm not even awake enough to process this
> completely, let alone be dealing calmly w officers
> (07:26:27 AM) dr_jesus: just ignore that part, the officer doesn't know
> about our organization so he doesn't know what he's talking about
> (07:26:33 AM) DrShiny: robert1: do you need any help over there
> (07:26:38 AM) DrShiny: i.e. More People
> (07:26:42 AM) rayc: No. Situation resolved.
> (07:26:51 AM) dr_jesus: Thanks!
> (07:27:01 AM) DrShiny: robert1: thank you
> (07:27:12 AM) DrShiny: please pass that on to anyone else there as well
> (07:27:15 AM) Vrai: Gold star for you, robert1
> (07:27:40 AM) rayc: I (Paul V) have Patrick's key in hand.
> (07:28:07 AM) dr_jesus: I have a thought for that, some people will be by in
> an hour or two to get it
> (07:28:10 AM) dr_jesus: Will you be around?
> (07:28:19 AM) DrShiny: "some people"?
> (07:28:42 AM) dr_jesus: X and Q
> (07:29:01 AM) rayc: Patrick has represented to officer Milton Andaluz that
> (1) it is the only key he had; (2) the matter is resolved; (3) he will not
> return to the space.
> (07:29:15 AM) Destri: maybe the police officer can get his address for his
> (07:29:32 AM) DrShiny: i wouldn't push it
> (07:29:49 AM) rayc: We carried down the printer and projector stand and,
> following Patrick's representations to the Officer, turned them over to him.
> (07:30:02 AM) rayc: Here are the details.
> (07:30:26 AM) rayc: Responding Officer: Milton Andaluz badge #1851
> (07:30:51 AM) riosgrp90 left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
> (07:30:57 AM) rayc: Mission Station (415) 558-5400
> (07:31:13 AM) rayc: CAD #110540424
> (07:31:50 AM) Vrai: This will get reported to mailing list at some point,
> yeah? So everyone knows events
> (07:32:31 AM) rayc: We will copy this contemporaneous record to the NB
> mailing list.
> (07:32:36 AM) DrShiny: it would be awesome if robert1 or someone else who
> was there would do so
> (07:32:51 AM) DrShiny: heh
> (07:32:57 AM) jlf left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
> (07:32:59 AM) Vrai: Thanks, robert1
> (07:34:28 AM) Destri: /Paul V
> (07:34:33 AM) rayc: It should be noted that Robert Albert Young Chu, aka
> rayc, showed exceptional courage under fire and persistence in defending the
> space and its property against the depredations of our onetime colleague
> (says Paul V.)
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