[Noisebridge-discuss] [drama] My Hair Is On Fire - Current events that are shaping your rights as we speak

jim jim at systemateka.com
Tue Mar 15 16:30:37 UTC 2011



    seems to me the issue is about the definition of the word 
"to hack". i like the definition "to attempt to solve a 
problem by artfully applying skills without reference to a 
plan or instructions." this strikes me as a specific and 
useful meaning that is valuable in its general applicability. 
    that the meaning is restricted to coding and electronics 
strikes me as unnecessarily limiting. 

    i don't get the "argument from ignorance" reference (i 
read the wikipedia link). 



On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 23:36 -0700, Evan Bangham wrote:
> Politics|Cooking|Art|Writing != Hacking
> 
> Yes, hacking can involve creativity and breaking established norms,
> but you can't just use it as a blanket term to describe doing anything
> that involves these things.
> 
> Also, 'political hacking' is not suddenly a valid and meaningful
> expression just because you employ it to describe systemic corruption
> of the US political system. Coupling that with an argument from
> ignorance as you are doing is a fallacious rhetorical stunt.
> 
> The slow food hacking thing I suppose enters the realm of hacking to a
> limited extent because it is using chemistry and the like, and I
> imagine is subversive in some way. I could say the same about
> photography and the like as long as it breaking the established norms
> of the medium and is harnessing technology in some way. Traditional
> fine art however, can never be 'hacked' because it is just so far
> removed from the realm of anything related to technology or science.
> 
> I think in many senses I'm being far to accommodating for these
> expanded definitions of the term as it is though.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Brian Morris <cymraegish at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>         my feeling is that hacking must involve somewhat underground
>         going
>         somewhat radically against the established ways.
>         
>         an engineer once worked for a big corporation and the hardware
>         hacker
>         could beat him to the punch working out of his with garage,
>         perhaps
>         even with spare and leftover parts. perhaps the hacker once
>         worked for
>         the man but he dropped out. or he never could deal with the
>         establishment in the first place, as a self-taught engineer he
>         can't
>         get a job but he loves the work anyway so he does whatever he
>         needs to
>         do to keep it going. Woz was a hacker.
>         
>         a hack writer could be someone who writes hack novels just to
>         keep
>         writing and not have to wash dishes. but if he is a hacker he
>         uses
>         that to finance something that might shake things up.  He is
>         thereby
>         refusing to join the establishment / status quo ie to Sell
>         Out.
>         
>         -------
>         
>         arguing about whether political hacking exists is silly. we
>         all know
>         what has happened the last two years, and who hacked the
>         political
>         establishment. if that wasn't a hack I don't know what is. You
>         might
>         argue about whether it is on balance disruptive or
>         constructive. (I
>         ain't advocating nothing).
>         
>         the more current events you might argue about whether for
>         instance the
>         Middle East has been hacked. But maybe looking at it from that
>         point
>         of view might be of some help to the liberators in their
>         efforts or to
>         those who would assist them. Well of course hackers in the
>         more narrow
>         sense have been of assistance.
>         
>         For another great political hacker you might consider M.
>         Ghandi.
>         Without his stuff what would the world be like today, hmmm ?
>         
>         You got to have some IMAGINATION.
>         
>         
>         --------
>         
>         For me Slow Food was hacking. I didn't know anyone else was
>         doing it
>         until it had become a Thing. I hope to keep doing it even if
>         it is no
>         longer a Thing. It is radical in this culture and in a quiet
>         way that
>         hurts nobody.
>         
>          Also I think that the concepts of Digital Art need hacking
>         badly.
>         This means NO Photoshop, Illustrator, or Flashiness stuff or
>         anything
>         similar / commercial / mass-market, actually nice if it could
>         shake
>         these people up but so what if it doesn't too bad for them.
>         This stuff
>         is leaking all the power from art that should be shaking
>         things up.
>         
>         Economic hacking is another thing I like. what can you do to
>         escape
>         consumerism -- which lends bad politics so much of its power.
>         
>         
>         
>         On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>         >
>         
>         
>         >    here's a link to a political event in SF tomorrow
>         > (tuesday 20110315):
>         >
>         http://pol.moveon.org/event/events/event.html?event_id=113305&id=26488-18847062-2m.k8Gx&t=1
>         >
>         >    my sense of "hacking politics" is based on the
>         > impression that noisebridge is highly open to and
>         > welcomes any activities, as long as there's a
>         > creative involvement, which is what i understand
>         > to be the heart of hacking.
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > On Sun, 2011-03-13 at 22:45 -0700, Snail wrote:
>         >> If you are not a hacker, you may just be a hack[er].
>         >>
>         >> BUUURRRN.
>         >>
>         >> Isn't it funny how the word which means an expert at
>         programming could
>         >> also mean someone who's unskilled in anything else? Does
>         that mean
>         >> people not skilled at computers are hackers regardless, or
>         maybe
>         >> inexpert people who can still hack a few working lines of
>         code
>         >> together are actually doing double the hacking than an
>         expert? Does
>         >> that mean I'm simultaneously the worst and greatest hacker
>         ever, like
>         >> a cat trapped in a box? WHY IS ENGLISH DOING THIS TO US.
>         >>
>         >> On another note, Merriam-Webster describes what the
>         population of nb
>         >> does at the space (I partake of 3 and 4a myself) in two of
>         their many
>         >> definitions. I'm just giddy now:
>         >>
>         >> hack (v)
>         >> 3: loaf —usually used with around
>         >> 4 a : to write computer programs for enjoyment
>         >>
>         >> Maybe I should host a breadmaking class, and while we sit
>         around and
>         >> wait for the bread to bake, people will wonder, "Are we
>         hacking, or
>         >> are we HACKING?" ["loaf"ing]
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> -The hack writer [The kind of hack writer who's BAD at
>         writing, not
>         >> the kind who just writes on commission. -- I don't actually
>         get paid
>         >> for this.]
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> To be more serious, I agree with Evan, and also don't. --
>         For one
>         >> thing, the word hack has a robust set of definitions which
>         existed
>         >> before computers and can be applied far away from programs
>         and
>         >> machines [it's horses all the way down], but I agree that
>         I've seen
>         >> too many people apply it in a sense that doesn't actually
>         make sense.
>         >>
>         >> Example: I don't know what hacking politics is supposed to
>         mean based
>         >> on this discussion. Are you going to get into politics
>         successfully
>         >> (general definition of hack) or you're going to find some
>         sneaky,
>         >> subversive (illegal) way to get something accomplished
>         (stretching the
>         >> definition of computer hacking to non-computer nouns) in
>         politics? --
>         >> I think real politicians already have us beat on the latter
>         type of
>         >> political hacking. Those fuckers.
>         >>
>         >> -Snail
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Evan Bangham
>         <ebangham at gmail.com>
>         >> wrote:
>         >>         Attention, you cannot 'hack' politics, you cannot
>         hack
>         >>         political parties, you cannot hack politicians, you
>         cannot
>         >>         hack social issues, or fiscal policy. Please for
>         the love of
>         >>         everything holey, stop it with this over
>         application of the
>         >>         word 'hack'. If you do not write code, design
>         circuits or at
>         >>         the very least create mechanical devices, you are
>         not a
>         >>         hacker. Thats right, it's true, the jib is up,
>         you're not a
>         >>         Non hacking hacker, not a anti hacking hacker, a
>         sub hacker,
>         >>         or anything else. You're not a hacker, plain and
>         simple.
>         >>
>         >>         If people keep on using the word so loosely it will
>         soon be
>         >>         devoid of all meaning and become, semantically
>         speaking, a
>         >>         steaming dead carcass of the word it once was. Soon
>         in the not
>         >>         so distant future we'll be saying shit like "I need
>         to hack my
>         >>         underwear in the washing machine, because I forgot
>         hack my ass
>         >>         when I was on the toilet taking a hack."
>         >>
>         >>         I've had a lot of free time lately and I will start
>         repeating
>         >>         this message everytime I see the word, or any
>         derivatives
>         >>         thereof applied in a way that doesn't follow this
>         simple
>         >>         definition.
>         >>
>         >>         On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Wladyslaw
>         Zbikowski
>         >>         <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>         >>                 On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Corey
>         McGuire
>         >>                 <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
>         >>                 > If you care about your right to vote you
>         need to
>         >>                 watch this. This will
>         >>                 > be the most informative hour of your
>         life:
>         >>
>         >>                 I believe in direct action, not voting;
>         that's why I
>         >>                 became a hacker
>         >>                 instead of an activist. I don't know (or
>         care) what
>         >>                 the fuck you are
>         >>                 talking about, but if watching a video on
>         MSNBC is
>         >>                 really the most
>         >>                 informative hour of my life, please drive
>         to 2475 3rd
>         >>                 St and kill me
>         >>                 right now. Thanks.
>         >>
>         _______________________________________________
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>         >>                 Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>         >>
>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>         _______________________________________________
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>         >>
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>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >>
>         >> --
>         >> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
>         >> _______________________________________________
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>         >>
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