[Noisebridge-discuss] [drama] My Hair Is On Fire - Current events that are shaping your rights as we speak
Brian Morris
cymraegish at gmail.com
Wed Mar 16 02:03:48 UTC 2011
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:30 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>
>
> seems to me the issue is about the definition of the word
> "to hack". i like the definition "to attempt to solve a
> problem by artfully applying skills without reference to a
> plan or instructions." this strikes me as a specific and
> useful meaning that is valuable in its general applicability.
>
I agree with that as far as it goes. I have to strengthen something about
stirring up the status quo (I take it "no plan .." means from some
authority, I can make a plan for myself if I want). May be either
disruptively or constructively.
Usually involves making something.
> that the meaning is restricted to coding and electronics
> strikes me as unnecessarily limiting.
>
> I sort of agree with the technological connection needed somewhere. In the
anthropological sense of tool using maybe. I think there is a fine line
between non-material technology and just cultural ways of doing things.
perhaps hacking investigates this space. So the adjective "artistic".
The tech could be to use tech in a new (artistically) and possibly
revolutionary way, couldn't do it otherwise. That's like programming but it
is cultural more general. "software" / "hardware" sort of. Abstraction layer
maybe.
This is not a short clear definition though. I think that it is important to
allow for non-material reality but keep it connected too.
The hard part for me right now is you have to work with whatever comes
along. Dumpster diving treasures are a little scarce these days.
If you are materially deprived then you are forced to go up to the next
abstraction level. But also I like to re-engineer things that maybe most
geeks think are worthless.
i don't get the "argument from ignorance" reference (i
> read the wikipedia link).
>
>
>
> On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 23:36 -0700, Evan Bangham wrote:
> > Politics|Cooking|Art|Writing != Hacking
> >
> > Yes, hacking can involve creativity and breaking established norms,
> > but you can't just use it as a blanket term to describe doing anything
> > that involves these things.
> >
> > Also, 'political hacking' is not suddenly a valid and meaningful
> > expression just because you employ it to describe systemic corruption
> > of the US political system. Coupling that with an argument from
> > ignorance as you are doing is a fallacious rhetorical stunt.
> >
> > The slow food hacking thing I suppose enters the realm of hacking to a
> > limited extent because it is using chemistry and the like, and I
> > imagine is subversive in some way. I could say the same about
> > photography and the like as long as it breaking the established norms
> > of the medium and is harnessing technology in some way. Traditional
> > fine art however, can never be 'hacked' because it is just so far
> > removed from the realm of anything related to technology or science.
> >
> > I think in many senses I'm being far to accommodating for these
> > expanded definitions of the term as it is though.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Brian Morris <cymraegish at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > my feeling is that hacking must involve somewhat underground
> > going
> > somewhat radically against the established ways.
> >
> > an engineer once worked for a big corporation and the hardware
> > hacker
> > could beat him to the punch working out of his with garage,
> > perhaps
> > even with spare and leftover parts. perhaps the hacker once
> > worked for
> > the man but he dropped out. or he never could deal with the
> > establishment in the first place, as a self-taught engineer he
> > can't
> > get a job but he loves the work anyway so he does whatever he
> > needs to
> > do to keep it going. Woz was a hacker.
> >
> > a hack writer could be someone who writes hack novels just to
> > keep
> > writing and not have to wash dishes. but if he is a hacker he
> > uses
> > that to finance something that might shake things up. He is
> > thereby
> > refusing to join the establishment / status quo ie to Sell
> > Out.
> >
> > -------
> >
> > arguing about whether political hacking exists is silly. we
> > all know
> > what has happened the last two years, and who hacked the
> > political
> > establishment. if that wasn't a hack I don't know what is. You
> > might
> > argue about whether it is on balance disruptive or
> > constructive. (I
> > ain't advocating nothing).
> >
> > the more current events you might argue about whether for
> > instance the
> > Middle East has been hacked. But maybe looking at it from that
> > point
> > of view might be of some help to the liberators in their
> > efforts or to
> > those who would assist them. Well of course hackers in the
> > more narrow
> > sense have been of assistance.
> >
> > For another great political hacker you might consider M.
> > Ghandi.
> > Without his stuff what would the world be like today, hmmm ?
> >
> > You got to have some IMAGINATION.
> >
> >
> > --------
> >
> > For me Slow Food was hacking. I didn't know anyone else was
> > doing it
> > until it had become a Thing. I hope to keep doing it even if
> > it is no
> > longer a Thing. It is radical in this culture and in a quiet
> > way that
> > hurts nobody.
> >
> > Also I think that the concepts of Digital Art need hacking
> > badly.
> > This means NO Photoshop, Illustrator, or Flashiness stuff or
> > anything
> > similar / commercial / mass-market, actually nice if it could
> > shake
> > these people up but so what if it doesn't too bad for them.
> > This stuff
> > is leaking all the power from art that should be shaking
> > things up.
> >
> > Economic hacking is another thing I like. what can you do to
> > escape
> > consumerism -- which lends bad politics so much of its power.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > > here's a link to a political event in SF tomorrow
> > > (tuesday 20110315):
> > >
> >
> http://pol.moveon.org/event/events/event.html?event_id=113305&id=26488-18847062-2m.k8Gx&t=1
> > >
> > > my sense of "hacking politics" is based on the
> > > impression that noisebridge is highly open to and
> > > welcomes any activities, as long as there's a
> > > creative involvement, which is what i understand
> > > to be the heart of hacking.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, 2011-03-13 at 22:45 -0700, Snail wrote:
> > >> If you are not a hacker, you may just be a hack[er].
> > >>
> > >> BUUURRRN.
> > >>
> > >> Isn't it funny how the word which means an expert at
> > programming could
> > >> also mean someone who's unskilled in anything else? Does
> > that mean
> > >> people not skilled at computers are hackers regardless, or
> > maybe
> > >> inexpert people who can still hack a few working lines of
> > code
> > >> together are actually doing double the hacking than an
> > expert? Does
> > >> that mean I'm simultaneously the worst and greatest hacker
> > ever, like
> > >> a cat trapped in a box? WHY IS ENGLISH DOING THIS TO US.
> > >>
> > >> On another note, Merriam-Webster describes what the
> > population of nb
> > >> does at the space (I partake of 3 and 4a myself) in two of
> > their many
> > >> definitions. I'm just giddy now:
> > >>
> > >> hack (v)
> > >> 3: loaf —usually used with around
> > >> 4 a : to write computer programs for enjoyment
> > >>
> > >> Maybe I should host a breadmaking class, and while we sit
> > around and
> > >> wait for the bread to bake, people will wonder, "Are we
> > hacking, or
> > >> are we HACKING?" ["loaf"ing]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -The hack writer [The kind of hack writer who's BAD at
> > writing, not
> > >> the kind who just writes on commission. -- I don't actually
> > get paid
> > >> for this.]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> To be more serious, I agree with Evan, and also don't. --
> > For one
> > >> thing, the word hack has a robust set of definitions which
> > existed
> > >> before computers and can be applied far away from programs
> > and
> > >> machines [it's horses all the way down], but I agree that
> > I've seen
> > >> too many people apply it in a sense that doesn't actually
> > make sense.
> > >>
> > >> Example: I don't know what hacking politics is supposed to
> > mean based
> > >> on this discussion. Are you going to get into politics
> > successfully
> > >> (general definition of hack) or you're going to find some
> > sneaky,
> > >> subversive (illegal) way to get something accomplished
> > (stretching the
> > >> definition of computer hacking to non-computer nouns) in
> > politics? --
> > >> I think real politicians already have us beat on the latter
> > type of
> > >> political hacking. Those fuckers.
> > >>
> > >> -Snail
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Evan Bangham
> > <ebangham at gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> Attention, you cannot 'hack' politics, you cannot
> > hack
> > >> political parties, you cannot hack politicians, you
> > cannot
> > >> hack social issues, or fiscal policy. Please for
> > the love of
> > >> everything holey, stop it with this over
> > application of the
> > >> word 'hack'. If you do not write code, design
> > circuits or at
> > >> the very least create mechanical devices, you are
> > not a
> > >> hacker. Thats right, it's true, the jib is up,
> > you're not a
> > >> Non hacking hacker, not a anti hacking hacker, a
> > sub hacker,
> > >> or anything else. You're not a hacker, plain and
> > simple.
> > >>
> > >> If people keep on using the word so loosely it will
> > soon be
> > >> devoid of all meaning and become, semantically
> > speaking, a
> > >> steaming dead carcass of the word it once was. Soon
> > in the not
> > >> so distant future we'll be saying shit like "I need
> > to hack my
> > >> underwear in the washing machine, because I forgot
> > hack my ass
> > >> when I was on the toilet taking a hack."
> > >>
> > >> I've had a lot of free time lately and I will start
> > repeating
> > >> this message everytime I see the word, or any
> > derivatives
> > >> thereof applied in a way that doesn't follow this
> > simple
> > >> definition.
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Wladyslaw
> > Zbikowski
> > >> <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Corey
> > McGuire
> > >> <coreyfro at coreyfro.com> wrote:
> > >> > If you care about your right to vote you
> > need to
> > >> watch this. This will
> > >> > be the most informative hour of your
> > life:
> > >>
> > >> I believe in direct action, not voting;
> > that's why I
> > >> became a hacker
> > >> instead of an activist. I don't know (or
> > care) what
> > >> the fuck you are
> > >> talking about, but if watching a video on
> > MSNBC is
> > >> really the most
> > >> informative hour of my life, please drive
> > to 2475 3rd
> > >> St and kill me
> > >> right now. Thanks.
> > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >>
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >>
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> > >
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