[Noisebridge-discuss] XY Combinator

Tue May 24 18:49:49 UTC 2011

As a girl, I think it's a pretty harmless joke.  We still have our sense of
humor intact, right?  The only thing I do not approve of is that the images
were used without obtaining the person's permission - I am sure there are
plenty of other guys out there that are more than fine with playing along
with the joke.

Cristina

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexander at gmail.com>wrote:

> (thinks more)
>
> I think the crux of the issue is that I don't believe that jokes that rely
> on stereotypes necessarily reinforce them. I know its not true because I
> make all kinds of jokes based on stereotypes that I strongly disagree with.
>
> Sure, the idea that it reinforces stereotypes *makes sense*, but since when
> is something true just because it makes sense? We're all science-y and know
> that's not how things work.
>
> Maybe there's some research behind it, but it sounds to me like something
> people assume because it makes sense, and I personally feel like I have
> first hand experience that disproves it.
> -Taylor
>
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexander at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Interesting reactions. While everything everyone said is intelligent and I
>> generally agree with it, I think some people are taking this way too
>> seriously. Yes, this implies only men do startups, which is totally untrue.
>> Yes, this implies all smart men are datable, which is untrue. Yes, it
>> implies several things that are untrue, and hopefully we're all smart enough
>> to know that those things are untrue.
>>
>> To me this is the standard "nerds can't get girls" joke, and I think its
>> an amusing and implementation. Especially since I follow the startup scene
>> and read about Y-Combinator every day. I also think its completely harmless.
>>
>> All the arguments against it are arguments against politically incorrect
>> humor as a whole, and I disagree with the idea that every joke has to be
>> respectful of everybody. We need to be able to say things we think are funny
>> without having to make sure that every part of their content and everything
>> their content implies is completely factually accurate and fair. That would
>> be terrible. We need to be able to ignore some of the facts of a situation
>> and just laugh at it. I think that is a really important core human need.
>>
>> That doesn't mean I think ignoring womens/mens/blacks/whites/etc's rights
>> is okay, I just think we need to hold our culture to a higher standard. We
>> shouldn't expect people's thoughts to be binary and unchanging. We should
>> expect people to be smart enough to know when something is a joke and when
>> it isn't. I understand that that's expecting a lot. People are bad at
>> filtering everything out, and there is some risk that it will get to their
>> head. But when it comes time to make real decisions, they should know what
>> thoughts are theirs and how they truly feel about something. I tell rape
>> jokes all the time (yes, you hate me now if you didn't already), but I also
>> fight strongly for women's rights and equality. I think rape is a terrible
>> terrible thing and its pervasiveness is completely unacceptable. But I still
>> appreciate ignoring all that stuff and just joking about it. Louis CK tells
>> a joke about raping Hitler that's hilarious. I joke a lot about racism, but
>> only because I think racism is so completely dumb that the people who still
>> are racist just seem comically out of touch to me (though the way they
>> behave obviously isn't comical).
>>
>> My point is, I don't want to live in a society where you can't tell a
>> harmless "nerds can't get girls joke" without being accused of perpetuating
>> our rape culture and objectifying women. Those issues are incredibly
>> important, but finding them in a harmless joke like this, in my opinion, is
>> taking things way too far. (Its also probably an ineffective way of getting
>> your message out)
>>
>> <Steals flame suit from interpetive arson>
>> -Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Ken Adler <ken.adler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder how long that picture on the home page stays there.  Anyone want
>>> to start a betting pool?
>>>
>>> I know one of the guys in the picture and gave him the heads up about the
>>> site.   He  (a) was not aware of the site,and (b) was "not amused" that his
>>> picture was being used without his permission.. especially in this context.
>>>
>>> Ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Tom Cauchois <tcauchois at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is an example of something that's hard to pick up on for guys who
>>>> have never really thought about it, because I don't think it's trying to be
>>>> offensive.  It's just trying to make fun of startup founders.
>>>>
>>>> The part that makes it obvious, and the part that really annoys me, is
>>>> again "all startup founders are guys and we need to get them dates through
>>>> the internet".  That's a denial of the great women in tech and a
>>>> discouragement for more women to enter tech.  Maybe low impact because it's
>>>> a joke site, but it's also the pervasive thinking, which sucks because a
>>>> gender balanced tech workforce would be sweet.
>>>>
>>>> It also implies these guys are dateable, in spite of "The Social
>>>> Network".
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 3:03 AM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Griffin Boyce <
>>>>> griffinboyce at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would think in this case that the guys would be the "commodity"
>>>>>> since they are the ones vying for the affection of those who are considered
>>>>>> to be socially-superior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> uh... no, not really. When you seek money for your startup, it's the
>>>>> money that's the commodity, not the unique original idea that you have. Last
>>>>> I checked, the whole point of money is that it's a commodity.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found the whole thing more sad than funny. It seemed a lame attempt
>>>>> at humor, relying on stereotypes (thus reinforcing them) to make a joke that
>>>>> at best was really childish, like laughing at a disabled kid for not being
>>>>> able to play ball like normal kids. Not only do I agree with Liz about the
>>>>> assumption that it's only men doing startups, but entirely found the
>>>>> treatment of women on that site uncomfortable. Although I suspect they meant
>>>>> it to be creepy, it is neither truly over the top, nor not-creepy, thus
>>>>> failing on either side.
>>>>>
>>>>> They might have been able to pull it out with interesting embellishment
>>>>> or even meaningful credibility, but failed there, too. I mean seriously, no
>>>>> feedback form? Just an email address? You never got to know anything about
>>>>> the girls, not even how they select them. They could have taken that
>>>>> humorously quite a long ways, potentially making the women seem even *gasp*
>>>>> desirable in any way at all other than "lovely young". But by that omission,
>>>>> they so thoroughly commoditize the women, they assure that it falls flat.
>>>>> (They seriously would do better with cattle!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> To me at least, it's coded as access to romance and basic human
>>>>>> affection, which (again in my experience) isn't limited to "access to a
>>>>>> vagina."  In fact, it's incredibly insulting that it's so frequently assumed
>>>>>> that "all men want" is sexual interaction.  And yes, I've met (and
>>>>>> frequently dated!) men who were exceedingly polite and respectful, but were
>>>>>> too shy in most circumstances to make a good first impression.  The same
>>>>>> goes for women, come to think of it.  Something like this could be a good
>>>>>> way to meet people for all genders and sexualities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and I guess you missed the FAQ where they tell you they don't offer
>>>>> boys to date. "Our model works best." was their response. It makes
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the biggest reason the joke here falls flat is because it's not
>>>>> even outrageous enough that it's clear to people who read it through that
>>>>> it's a joke. Or maybe that's the joke?
>>>>>
>>>>> Christie
>>>>> _______
>>>>> I'm the kind of person who finds and makes choices where there appear
>>>>> to be none.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ken Adler
>>> 510-290-5806 (cell)
>>> Ken at adler.net
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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