[Noisebridge-discuss] XY Combinator

Tue May 24 18:57:02 UTC 2011

If I had to bet, I would guess that the whole thing started as a way for
*the creators* of XYcombinator to get in touch with some single women who
would at least consider dating a geeky guy (which presumably the
xycombinator creator(s) see themselves as)

K

On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Cris <crisachow14 at gmail.com> wrote:

> As a girl, I think it's a pretty harmless joke.  We still have our sense of
> humor intact, right?  The only thing I do not approve of is that the images
> were used without obtaining the person's permission - I am sure there are
> plenty of other guys out there that are more than fine with playing along
> with the joke.
>
> Cristina
>
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexander at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> (thinks more)
>>
>> I think the crux of the issue is that I don't believe that jokes that rely
>> on stereotypes necessarily reinforce them. I know its not true because I
>> make all kinds of jokes based on stereotypes that I strongly disagree with.
>>
>> Sure, the idea that it reinforces stereotypes *makes sense*, but since
>> when is something true just because it makes sense? We're all science-y and
>> know that's not how things work.
>>
>> Maybe there's some research behind it, but it sounds to me like something
>> people assume because it makes sense, and I personally feel like I have
>> first hand experience that disproves it.
>> -Taylor
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexander at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting reactions. While everything everyone said is intelligent and
>>> I generally agree with it, I think some people are taking this way too
>>> seriously. Yes, this implies only men do startups, which is totally untrue.
>>> Yes, this implies all smart men are datable, which is untrue. Yes, it
>>> implies several things that are untrue, and hopefully we're all smart enough
>>> to know that those things are untrue.
>>>
>>> To me this is the standard "nerds can't get girls" joke, and I think its
>>> an amusing and implementation. Especially since I follow the startup scene
>>> and read about Y-Combinator every day. I also think its completely harmless.
>>>
>>> All the arguments against it are arguments against politically incorrect
>>> humor as a whole, and I disagree with the idea that every joke has to be
>>> respectful of everybody. We need to be able to say things we think are funny
>>> without having to make sure that every part of their content and everything
>>> their content implies is completely factually accurate and fair. That would
>>> be terrible. We need to be able to ignore some of the facts of a situation
>>> and just laugh at it. I think that is a really important core human need.
>>>
>>> That doesn't mean I think ignoring womens/mens/blacks/whites/etc's rights
>>> is okay, I just think we need to hold our culture to a higher standard. We
>>> shouldn't expect people's thoughts to be binary and unchanging. We should
>>> expect people to be smart enough to know when something is a joke and when
>>> it isn't. I understand that that's expecting a lot. People are bad at
>>> filtering everything out, and there is some risk that it will get to their
>>> head. But when it comes time to make real decisions, they should know what
>>> thoughts are theirs and how they truly feel about something. I tell rape
>>> jokes all the time (yes, you hate me now if you didn't already), but I also
>>> fight strongly for women's rights and equality. I think rape is a terrible
>>> terrible thing and its pervasiveness is completely unacceptable. But I still
>>> appreciate ignoring all that stuff and just joking about it. Louis CK tells
>>> a joke about raping Hitler that's hilarious. I joke a lot about racism, but
>>> only because I think racism is so completely dumb that the people who still
>>> are racist just seem comically out of touch to me (though the way they
>>> behave obviously isn't comical).
>>>
>>> My point is, I don't want to live in a society where you can't tell a
>>> harmless "nerds can't get girls joke" without being accused of perpetuating
>>> our rape culture and objectifying women. Those issues are incredibly
>>> important, but finding them in a harmless joke like this, in my opinion, is
>>> taking things way too far. (Its also probably an ineffective way of getting
>>> your message out)
>>>
>>> <Steals flame suit from interpetive arson>
>>> -Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Ken Adler <ken.adler at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder how long that picture on the home page stays there.  Anyone
>>>> want to start a betting pool?
>>>>
>>>> I know one of the guys in the picture and gave him the heads up about
>>>> the site.   He  (a) was not aware of the site,and (b) was "not amused" that
>>>> his picture was being used without his permission.. especially in this
>>>> context.
>>>>
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Tom Cauchois <tcauchois at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is an example of something that's hard to pick up on for guys who
>>>>> have never really thought about it, because I don't think it's trying to be
>>>>> offensive.  It's just trying to make fun of startup founders.
>>>>>
>>>>> The part that makes it obvious, and the part that really annoys me, is
>>>>> again "all startup founders are guys and we need to get them dates through
>>>>> the internet".  That's a denial of the great women in tech and a
>>>>> discouragement for more women to enter tech.  Maybe low impact because it's
>>>>> a joke site, but it's also the pervasive thinking, which sucks because a
>>>>> gender balanced tech workforce would be sweet.
>>>>>
>>>>> It also implies these guys are dateable, in spite of "The Social
>>>>> Network".
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 3:03 AM, Christie Dudley <longobord at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 12:10 AM, Griffin Boyce <
>>>>>> griffinboyce at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would think in this case that the guys would be the "commodity"
>>>>>>> since they are the ones vying for the affection of those who are considered
>>>>>>> to be socially-superior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> uh... no, not really. When you seek money for your startup, it's the
>>>>>> money that's the commodity, not the unique original idea that you have. Last
>>>>>> I checked, the whole point of money is that it's a commodity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found the whole thing more sad than funny. It seemed a lame attempt
>>>>>> at humor, relying on stereotypes (thus reinforcing them) to make a joke that
>>>>>> at best was really childish, like laughing at a disabled kid for not being
>>>>>> able to play ball like normal kids. Not only do I agree with Liz about the
>>>>>> assumption that it's only men doing startups, but entirely found the
>>>>>> treatment of women on that site uncomfortable. Although I suspect they meant
>>>>>> it to be creepy, it is neither truly over the top, nor not-creepy, thus
>>>>>> failing on either side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They might have been able to pull it out with interesting
>>>>>> embellishment or even meaningful credibility, but failed there, too. I mean
>>>>>> seriously, no feedback form? Just an email address? You never got to know
>>>>>> anything about the girls, not even how they select them. They could have
>>>>>> taken that humorously quite a long ways, potentially making the women seem
>>>>>> even *gasp* desirable in any way at all other than "lovely young". But by
>>>>>> that omission, they so thoroughly commoditize the women, they assure that it
>>>>>> falls flat. (They seriously would do better with cattle!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me at least, it's coded as access to romance and basic human
>>>>>>> affection, which (again in my experience) isn't limited to "access to a
>>>>>>> vagina."  In fact, it's incredibly insulting that it's so frequently assumed
>>>>>>> that "all men want" is sexual interaction.  And yes, I've met (and
>>>>>>> frequently dated!) men who were exceedingly polite and respectful, but were
>>>>>>> too shy in most circumstances to make a good first impression.  The same
>>>>>>> goes for women, come to think of it.  Something like this could be a good
>>>>>>> way to meet people for all genders and sexualities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, and I guess you missed the FAQ where they tell you they don't
>>>>>> offer boys to date. "Our model works best." was their response. It makes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the biggest reason the joke here falls flat is because it's
>>>>>> not even outrageous enough that it's clear to people who read it through
>>>>>> that it's a joke. Or maybe that's the joke?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christie
>>>>>> _______
>>>>>> I'm the kind of person who finds and makes choices where there appear
>>>>>> to be none.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ken Adler
>>>> 510-290-5806 (cell)
>>>> Ken at adler.net
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>
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-- 
Ken Adler
510-290-5806 (cell)
Ken at adler.net
----
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