[Noisebridge-discuss] Paid for cleaners, have they ever come by the space?

Will Sargent will.sargent at gmail.com
Tue Nov 22 23:47:06 UTC 2011

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:19 PM, Rubin Abdi <rubin at starset.net> wrote:
> Thanks for answering one of my questions (outline what cleaning has
> happened) Still wanting to hear a response for how much it cost us, and
> how that's improved the space over not paying a cleaners for cleaning
> service. Additionally now after reading your response I would also like
> to know the hours spent each week by the cleaning crew.

I don't have an answer for you there; it was a flat rate to clean
areas, not by the hour.

> Over the past two months I have noticed our bathrooms looking much more
> filthier than normal. My educated guess through deduction would direct
> me to believe that the patrons of Noisebridge who normally help to clean
> up the bathrooms (many of us), have stopped because they don't see a
> need to since we've got paid cleaners. Since the bathrooms need to be
> cleaned more often than just once a month, they've totally gone from
> being nice to kinda gross. I'm sure others will disagree on many of
> these points.

So you're saying:

a) Noisebridge will clean the bathrooms themselves if they are messy.
b) Noisebridge won't clean the bathrooms if someone else is cleaning
them, even if they are messy.

Aren't these ideas mutually contradictory?  You're saying Noisebridge
is a self directed motivated community capable of doing its own
cleaning... but somehow if the bathroom is messy and the last person
who cleaned it got a check, Noisebridge's motivation deflates like a
rubber balloon and renders it incapable of picking up a mop?

>> To your point -- why Noisebridge looks like a festering cackhole -- is
>> because a) once a month and b) they were told not to clean any of the
>> tables off.

> I'm on the fence on paying others to clean up after ourselves, very much
> against the idea to pay others because we don't want to pick up our own
> toys after we're done playing, that's what the TechShop is for.

I'm against people not cleaning up after themselves.  I'm also against
people sleeping in the space.  However, if people aren't cleaning up
and are sleeping in the space, then I don't see the point of saying
that we should live in a world where people don't do that.  It doesn't
change human nature.

> No that's not why I'm nagging about this. It's more about we're paying
> money for a service that is ineffective at the frequency we've having
> them do it, and at the same time a bit pointless and wasteful of funds
> since all of us are capable to clean up a space we contribute to.

This was actually extensively discussed at the meetings -- cleaning's
a burn out job that theoretically no-one's and everyone's
responsibility, and frequently falls through the cracks.  At the
meeting, it became clear that various people have tried being the
"cleaning" guy and put down that mantle after it became clear that the
job is sisyphean.  There are bursts of activity -- and Noisebridge is
very good at bursts of high productivity -- but cleaning does not have
"teh shiny" that attracts people's attention.

> How many hours have we spent discussing this? How many of those hours
> could have gotten spent cleaning the space up?

This is like saying the time you've spent watching furry animals on
Youtube (or kink.com) could have been used to write the Great American
Novel.  Possible, but unlikely.


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