[Noisebridge-discuss] Enlightenment & its discontents (response to Rachel, Jim, Frantisek et al)

Sat Aug 18 21:49:34 UTC 2012

Also sorry for hijacking this thread... admittedly I didn't read much
of the content
before replying.

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Mike Schachter
<mschachter at eigenminds.com> wrote:
> I'm really sorry to see Rachel's initial suggestion for Noisebridge to
> adopt some sort of anti-harassment statement devolve into something
> more drama oriented and personal.
>
> I'm also sorry to see so many people not support her suggestion for
> Noisebridge to adopt any sort of anti-harassment statement. I really
> don't see how anything negative could come of doing so.
>
>  mike
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 12:31 PM, rachel lyra hospodar
> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> Thanks for working to engage in a considered way on this issue!  It's
>> a really uncomfortable but necessary one!  Regrets for any lack of
>> clarity around the way I read nb-discuss, some more details and some
>> thoughts on why I shared the fact of the filtering:
>>
>> I use this email address for mailing lists, I belong to many.  Mailing
>> lists are, to me, still the single most fungible and successful tool
>> for creating online communities.  By filtering mail from certain lists
>> to certain folders, I am able to subscribe to many high-volume lists
>> and scores of low-volume lists without having undifferentiated chaos
>> in my inbox.
>>
>> I am deeply interested in the metacognitive repercussions of the
>> "sortability" of electronic commmunications.  For example, I have six
>> or seven arduino and microcontroller-specific mailing lists that all
>> sort into one shared folder.  This way, when I am working on
>> electronics or seeking to delve into the topic further, I have one
>> really rich place where all those email inputs are collected.  It is
>> interesting to me the way this creates a psychologically real 'bounded
>> space' that is functionally identical to a room full of people.  I put
>> Michael Shiloh and the amarino toolkit list into the same room because
>> I want to read them at the same time.
>>
>> I put sustainability interest groups and lists together, small
>> business & neighborhood localization lists together, etc.  I actually
>> send nb-discuss, nb-announce, and all of my noisebridge sublists to
>> the same folder.  Which I read regularly.
>>
>> Sometimes, when someone is still getting their shit together on how to
>> setup their list, they will put me on but then the way the emails
>> comes in varies so much I have to make a number of different filters
>> to keep them in the correct folder and out of in the main inbox.  Then
>> I sometimes solve the problem by filtering all of that person's emails
>> to the right place.  Their incompetent netiquette loses them their
>> access to my primary inbox.  Some people go one step up the ladder and
>> issue new email addresses for each list they are on, so they can track
>> who shares their address and if needed remove the offenders' ability
>> to reach them at all.  Once I set up some more stuff I might go
>> further down this route, but for now I only do this in a few cases.
>>
>> I have done this here as a metacognitive hack to place these
>> interactions with Frantisek back into the public sphere.  I am sharing
>> that I have done it, as a way of documenting the hack and
>> open-sourcing it.
>>
>>> good guys, too. This awkward discussion could lead to something
>>> enlightening, purrr haps?
>>
>> That's my hypothesis, and is of course the reason I initiated and I am
>> forcing the continuation of the conversation even though it is
>> awkward.  I wish I thought that you had noticed this congruency,
>> instead of this sentence reading to me as a piece of advice.  But hey,
>> maybe it's not even advice or maybe it's advice that is not directed
>> at me, and you are agreeing with me and stating your good opinion of
>> my solution.
>>
>> I can only hope that over time support of and agreeance with the
>> specific actions I am taking in this realm would be more often stated
>> explicitly rather than implicitly.  It really speeds up the adoption
>> of the technologies I am building.
>>
>> hey, a girl can dream, can't she?
>>
>> R.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Tony Longshanks LeTigre
>> <anthonyletigre at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rachel Lyra wrote:
>>> Frantisek emailed me privately, but I am responding publicly.
>>>
>>> The text of his email is included below. I've done this before....once,
>>> twice, three times maybe? When I felt someone has sent me something
>>> privately that should be addressed by the community at large. In such cases
>>> I don't ask permission, the same way I don't always ask permission when
>>> borrowing things from the web for zines I make. I believe in taking what you
>>> need, to a certain point. I accept a certain amount of "being taken from" as
>>> "That's Life," by the same token. I'm aware when posting a private message
>>> publicly that it is a breach of the usual protocol & therefore reserved for
>>> certain (usually heated) occasions. I've also done it in the past knowing
>>> (to my annoyance) that it would be dismissed as "stirring up drama," since I
>>> know I was branded that way at a time when there was a lot of inappropriate
>>> shit happening @ Noisebridge that I was calling people on. (I solved that
>>> problem by making my visits to NB more sporadic & usually not staying very
>>> long.)
>>>
>>> One thing I don't get, Rachel, is that you said you don't as a rule read
>>> NB-Discuss posts, you filter them to your junk bin, is that correct? I
>>> suppose the majority of NB-Discuss posts aren't worth your time, but it does
>>> strike me as a little arrogant that you deign to engender (ha!) a dialogue
>>> on a mailing list that you otherwise ignore. How do you know others aren't
>>> starting dialogues on similarly important matters the rest of the time?
>>>
>>> Perhaps I misunderstand you. I agree with much of what you're saying & even
>>> relate to your fierce attitude in a lot of ways. I think Frantisek & Jim are
>>> good guys, too. This awkward discussion could lead to something
>>> enlightening, purrr haps?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yr friendly neighborhood Tiger
>>>
>>>
>>>
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