[Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5

Wed Dec 5 20:03:32 UTC 2012

I appreciate the comments, however language must be considered for in terms
of underlying attitudes; while I agree that hyper-sensitization of
language-usage isn't very useful (not to mention can be irritating!), being
sensitive to how one's language refers to a gender is always a good thing.
And that is entirely sex positive!

So, yes, moving on is good, with those things in mind-wanting to make sure
men are treated with respect, as we all should be.
On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 10:49 AM, rachel lyra hospodar
<rachelyra at gmail.com>wrote:

> Our use of language vacillates between the very precise and the wildly
> inaccurate. In this case I first used precise language and it was not
> actually grokked. What I see in the use of this 'swear' word here is a
> different way of explaining the same concept, in a different dialect. The
> one incidentally that I found native in Noisebridgelandia when I got here.
>
> For the record noisebridge has hosted lots of alt-sex meetups/events/talks
> (for intellectual events, getyermindouttathegutter) and in general has a
> large sex-positive influence throughout its history.
>
> While I do think it is important that I be treated with respect, I don't
> think policing all language is productive. I think it is better to seek to
> move in a direction, no?
>
> Also wtf.
>
> I am really interested in making sure that 'women being treated with
> respect' doesn't somehow get conflated with 'we should stop being
> sexpositive' or 'omg now we all have to talk like a womens studies class'
> because believe me that it is possible to push that shit too far.
>
> just so y'all know where I stand on that.
>  On Dec 5, 2012 10:08 AM, "David theMaker" <starofatlas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "We've been dicks to each other in the past, so I made a rash judgement
>> and assumed that pattern was continuing".
>>
>> One thing that I appreciate about this group is the sensitivity towards
>> language in relation to each other, in the hopes of fostering greater
>> community and support.
>> So, why then is there no outrage of the use of "dicks" being used in a
>> derogatory and demeaning fashion? This usage fosters an underlying contempt
>> for the masculine; we're better than that!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 4:00 AM, <
>> noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to
>>>         noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>         https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>         noisebridge-discuss-request at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>         noisebridge-discuss-owner at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Sudo Room ?State of the Room? Dec. 7-9th: Weekend of Open
>>>       House Activities (Jenny Ryan)
>>>    2. Frantisek: Email bouncing on tastebridge (Glen Jarvis)
>>>    3. Re: New furniture (Brandon Edens)
>>>    4. Re: New furniture (Tony Longshanks LeTigre)
>>>    5. Re: New furniture (rachel lyra hospodar)
>>>    6. Tahoe, The Least Authority File System,   Thursday Night Hack
>>>       Meet (Zancas Dearana)
>>>    7. Re: New furniture (John Withers)
>>>    8. Re: New furniture (Brian Cloutier)
>>>    9. Lab: Frontend Web Development, Thursday 8pm (Jeffrey Carl Faden)
>>>   10. It's a Newtonmas Five Minutes of Fame, Charlie Brown -- 5MOF
>>>       returns on December 20th, send me your submissions now, this
>>>       subject line is too long for most clients. (Danny O'Brien)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: "Jenny Ryan" <jenny at thepyre.org>
>>> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:54:46 -0800
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Sudo Room “State of the Room” Dec. 7-9th:
>>> Weekend of Open House Activities
>>>
>>> Greetings Noisebridgers~
>>>
>>> Please join Sudo Room <http://sudoroom.org/>, a hacker/creativespace in
>>> downtown Oakland, for a series of public events at our new space this
>>> coming weekend! This month we are celebrating our move into a full space at
>>> 2141 Broadway with the first annual “State of the Room.” Come see our
>>> space, meet the “sudoers,” learn what Sudo Room is all about, hear what
>>> projects people are working on, and be a part of developing the future
>>> direction of Sudo Room.
>>>
>>> Weekend Schedule:
>>>
>>>    - Fri. Dec. 7th, 6-10PM: Sudo Room Housewarming & Fundraiser<http://sudoroom.org/ai1ec_event/house-warming/?instance_id=19501>(during Art Murmur)
>>>    - Sat. Dec. 8th, 9-5: “State of the Room” Unconference<http://sudoroom.org/ai1ec_event/first-annual-state-of-the-room-unconference/?instance_id=19502>
>>>    - Sun. Dec. 9th, all day: Move-In Day and Neglected Technology /
>>>    Book Drive<http://sudoroom.org/ai1ec_event/move-in-day/?instance_id=19505>
>>>
>>> Love,
>>> the sudo room crew
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>
>>> To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>,
>>> algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>> Cc: tastebridge tastebridge <tastebridge at lists.noisebridge.net>,
>>> Noisebridge <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 07:59:59 -0800
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Frantisek: Email bouncing on tastebridge
>>>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Frantisek,
>>>     This email address 'algoldor at frantisekapfelbeck.org" is bouncing
>>> too much and the tastebridge list has automatically moved your email into
>>> "don't send any more state" because of it.
>>>
>>>      I can help you reactivate if you can't yourself. I am sending such
>>> a wide net to hopefully reach you and let you know. But, first let me know
>>> that you have the email bounce problem under control.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Glen
>>> - --
>>> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does
>>> his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury
>>> it, unearth it, and gnaw it still."
>>>
>>> - --Henry David Thoreau
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>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Brandon Edens <brandonedens at gmail.com>
>>> To: Snail <snailtsunami at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Noisebridge-discuss <Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 08:31:03 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] New furniture
>>> On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 05:32:26PM -0800, Snail wrote:
>>>
>>> > You could probably compromise on the issue & replace the couches with
>>> > wooden benches. Still accessible, comfortable enough for sitting, &
>>> easier
>>> > to clean and maintain than couch cushions. -- People can buy pillows
>>> that
>>> > are easier to clean/rotate if they want something softer. -- Plus that
>>> > looks like Internet-cafe-ish, right? Is that what's hip these days?
>>> That
>>> > was the original point, right?
>>> >
>>> > Let's not be too practical, though! >_>
>>>
>>> Found this wonderful reference on benches that others can use in
>>> designing
>>> their own benches OR analyzing the positioning and placement of benches.
>>>
>>> http://www.pps.org/reference/benches/
>>>
>>> Some highlights:
>>>
>>> Benches should not face each other directly unless they are being used
>>> for
>>> games. People tend to feel uncomfortable when they sit face to face with
>>> a
>>> stranger, and will twist around or sit sideways to avoid eye contact.
>>> Occasionally, pairs of benches should be placed at a 90 to 120 degree
>>> angle,
>>> which is good both for conversations and for sitting alone.
>>>
>>> A second factor in bench design is appearance. It is important that a
>>> bench
>>> fits in with its surroundings. The reason for this is that a bench, which
>>> appears to be an extension of the property it sits next to, will help to
>>> give a
>>> proprietary feel to the street. This increases the likelihood that
>>> business
>>> owners will take care of the bench (and the street) that will, in turn,
>>> have a
>>> positive effect on safety and security in the area.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and of course bench comfort...
>>>
>>> To be comfortable, there should be a 95-105 degree angle between the
>>> seat and
>>> the back, and the seat should be between 2 and 10 degrees off of
>>> horizontal.
>>>
>>> The depth of the seat should be 12 to 18 inches for benches with backs
>>> and 30
>>> inches for backless benches.
>>>
>>> A seat height of 18 inches is generally the most comfortable.
>>>
>>> The front edge of the seat should be curved rather than squared off.
>>>
>>> Small bench slats (2 inches) spaced closely together and following a
>>> contoured
>>> form are generally more comfortable than larger slats (8 inches).
>>> However, in
>>> areas where vandalism is a factor a larger size (e.g., 3 inches x 8
>>> inches)
>>> should be used.
>>>
>>> The length of the seat should allow for twenty-four inches per person.
>>> However,
>>> people will sit closer to each other if there is an armrest separating
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Armrests are useful both to help people to get out of the seat, and to
>>> divide a
>>> bench so that more people can fit along it. Segmenting the bench into
>>> sections
>>> through the use of armrests can provide a sense of privacy among groups
>>> as well
>>> as encourage people to sit closer together. The edge of the armrest
>>> should
>>> extend out to the edge of the seat, and it should have a firm, rounded
>>> gripping
>>> surface.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brandon Edens | brandonedens at gmail.com | brandonedens.org | key
>>> 0xEC4E9BA5
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Tony Longshanks LeTigre <anthonyletigre at gmail.com>
>>> To: rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Noisebridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 09:00:59 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] New furniture
>>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:00 AM, rachel lyra hospodar <
>>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just because they are raggedy doesn't make the accessibility issue
>>>> someone else's problem.  It's just you deciding that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You are overreacting. You have a glaring tendency to see others as your
>>> oppressors & as autocrats rather than your equals & comrades. This leads to
>>> conflicts that are self-manufactured with people who should be your allies.
>>> Dan & others have already stated they will wait to make any substantial
>>> changes to the furnishings of the space until others have a chance to give
>>> input at the meeting tonight, etc. I doubt anyone connected to Noisebridge
>>> has it in for people with disabilities or will stubbornly refuse to provide
>>> accommodations for those who are differently abled. Thank you for bringing
>>> this into the discussion, all the same. In the meantime, we cleaned some
>>> stuff off the top of fridge #2 the other night that was so foul the mice &
>>> cockroaches have been avoiding that area. Surely this is a net positive for
>>> the space. Let us thrive - and evolve - together!
>>>
>>> +11+
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>>> To: Tony Longshanks LeTigre <anthonyletigre at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Noisebridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 15:03:05 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] New furniture
>>>
>>>
>>> I found this article by searching "calling out oppression" and
>>> "over-reacting".
>>> http://ab-wg.blogspot.com/2009/01/role-of-allies.html?m=1
>>> Maybe I should make a chart of boringly predictable oblivous responses,
>>> or a robot like lmgtfy that deflects blacklisted emails using their
>>> adjectives as search terms.
>>>
>>> Because there are just so many goshdarned people playing out the same
>>> predictable social dynamics that there are in fact rote predictable
>>> responses to these discussions.
>>>
>>> Yawn.
>>>
>>> Bye now.
>>> On Dec 4, 2012 9:01 AM, "Tony Longshanks LeTigre" <
>>> anthonyletigre at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:00 AM, rachel lyra hospodar <
>>>> rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just because they are raggedy doesn't make the accessibility issue
>>>>> someone else's problem.  It's just you deciding that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> You are overreacting. You have a glaring tendency to see others as your
>>>> oppressors & as autocrats rather than your equals & comrades. This leads to
>>>> conflicts that are self-manufactured with people who should be your allies.
>>>> Dan & others have already stated they will wait to make any substantial
>>>> changes to the furnishings of the space until others have a chance to give
>>>> input at the meeting tonight, etc. I doubt anyone connected to Noisebridge
>>>> has it in for people with disabilities or will stubbornly refuse to provide
>>>> accommodations for those who are differently abled. Thank you for bringing
>>>> this into the discussion, all the same. In the meantime, we cleaned some
>>>> stuff off the top of fridge #2 the other night that was so foul the mice &
>>>> cockroaches have been avoiding that area. Surely this is a net positive for
>>>> the space. Let us thrive - and evolve - together!
>>>>
>>>> +11+
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Zancas Dearana <zancas at leastauthority.com>
>>> To: tahoe-dev at tahoe-lafs.org, p2p-hackers at lists.zooko.com, Noisebridge
>>> Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>,
>>> noisebridge-announce at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 13:30:47 -0800
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Tahoe, The Least Authority File System,
>>> Thursday Night Hack Meet
>>> The Tahoe Least Authority File System is a peer-to-peer system that
>>> stores
>>> data redundantly with agents who cannot read the data contents.  These
>>> agents are granted close to the *minimum* authority necessary to support
>>> requests about the data.  This design is motivated by the "Principle
>>> of Least Authority".
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_authority
>>>
>>> This Thursday (2012-12-06) at 19:00 PST, members of the Tahoe
>>> community will have
>>> a physical meetup at "The Big Noisebridge Table".  We'll project
>>> a basic state diagram (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_diagram)
>>> depicting
>>> the behaviour of the distributed "Lease Database" that the "storage
>>> server"
>>> agents in the Tahoe network use to manage the encrypted data that they
>>> store.  During our meeting we'll add correct and useful content to the
>>> diagram.
>>>
>>> An overview of the design, including the basic state diagram, can be
>>> found here:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://github.com/davidsarah/tahoe-lafs/blob/1819-cloud-merge/docs/proposed/leasedb.rst
>>>
>>> For a general introduction to Tahoe check this out:
>>>
>>> https://tahoe-lafs.org
>>>
>>> Gimme the code!!
>>>
>>> To understand the behavior of the "lease data base" we'll be inspecting
>>> this
>>> code (you might want to look at this before Thursday!):
>>>
>>> https://github.com/davidsarah/tahoe-lafs/tree/master/src/allmydata/
>>>
>>> storage/leasedb.py
>>> storage/account.py
>>> storage/accountant.py
>>> storage/accounting_crawler.py
>>> storage/server.py (less important)
>>>
>>>
>>> No punch...   no pie...   just a group building a better Information
>>> Super Highway (a series of tubes in The Cyber)!
>>>
>>> --
>>> -- ظ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: John Withers <jwithers at reddagger.org>
>>> To: rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Noisebridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 14:04:37 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] New furniture
>>> I love how anytime anyone disagrees with you going off on people, you
>>> can never be wrong because anyone pointing out that you go over the top
>>> agro on people who intended no harm, they are evil oppressors.
>>>
>>> It's win win and possibly one of the most brilliant perma-troll tactics
>>> I have ever seen. Very nice work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 15:03 -0500, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I found this article by searching "calling out oppression" and
>>> > "over-reacting".
>>> > http://ab-wg.blogspot.com/2009/01/role-of-allies.html?m=1
>>> > Maybe I should make a chart of boringly predictable oblivous
>>> > responses, or a robot like lmgtfy that deflects blacklisted emails
>>> > using their adjectives as search terms.
>>> >
>>> > Because there are just so many goshdarned people playing out the same
>>> > predictable social dynamics that there are in fact rote predictable
>>> > responses to these discussions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Brian Cloutier <briancloutier2010 at gmail.com>
>>> To:
>>> Cc: Noisebridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 16:02:00 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] New furniture
>>>
>>> >I think you owe him (and Josh) an apology for the unqualified harshness
>>>
>>> >You are overreacting.
>>>
>>> You guys do realize she said sorry right?
>>>
>>> > Maybe you will all love this, as I will now make an example of my own
>>> cognitive fallacies, instead of someone else's. [...] I just reread my
>>> exchange with josh and while I called him out for challenging my statements
>>> rather than querying them, [...]. The wording is, in fact, a query.
>>>
>>> "After some review, it turns out that I was wrong"
>>>
>>> >  How much of that set of my assumptions come from my knowledge of josh
>>> and past interactions with him? How much is rooted in other experiences I
>>> have had?  In this case especially I am not really sure.
>>>
>>> "We've been dicks to each other in the past, so I made a rash judgement
>>> and assumed that pattern was continuing"
>>>
>>> > We are a sort of organic computer that constructs algorithms based on
>>> data of interactions. If everyone bases their reactions to each other on
>>> past experiences then there is some necessary noise in the system.
>>>
>>> "We are all human, and we all mistakes"
>>>
>>> > but what about for all those crazy feminist bitches who flip out every
>>> time you interrupt them?
>>>
>>> "Again my bad, I overreacted."
>>>
>>> > How do you deal with the ways that people act and react, especially
>>> when they are different than what you might be wanting? I deal with it by
>>> trying to imagine what their motivations are, [...]
>>>
>>> "Usually I do try to be empathetic."
>>>
>>> > Sometimes I make false conclusions based on my own preconceptions or
>>> situation. [...]  One thing I like about the
>>> metacognitive-neurolinguistic-social-interaction field of study is that it
>>> begins by acknowledging this.
>>>
>>> "However this time I really messed up, and I realize that"
>>>
>>>
>>> This is actually a pretty damn good apology. Instead of just saying "I'm
>>> sorry" Rachel is saying what went wrong, why it happened, and by
>>> referencing science implicitly stating she'll try to do better in the
>>> future.
>>>
>>> So... can we back off?
>>>
>>> - Brian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 2:04 PM, John Withers <jwithers at reddagger.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I love how anytime anyone disagrees with you going off on people, you
>>>> can never be wrong because anyone pointing out that you go over the top
>>>> agro on people who intended no harm, they are evil oppressors.
>>>>
>>>> It's win win and possibly one of the most brilliant perma-troll tactics
>>>> I have ever seen. Very nice work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 15:03 -0500, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I found this article by searching "calling out oppression" and
>>>> > "over-reacting".
>>>> > http://ab-wg.blogspot.com/2009/01/role-of-allies.html?m=1
>>>> > Maybe I should make a chart of boringly predictable oblivous
>>>> > responses, or a robot like lmgtfy that deflects blacklisted emails
>>>> > using their adjectives as search terms.
>>>> >
>>>> > Because there are just so many goshdarned people playing out the same
>>>> > predictable social dynamics that there are in fact rote predictable
>>>> > responses to these discussions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Jeffrey Carl Faden <jeffreyatw at gmail.com>
>>> To: "noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net" <
>>> noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>,
>>> noisebridge-announce at lists.noisebridge.net, webdev at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 19:20:54 -0800
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Lab: Frontend Web Development, Thursday
>>> 8pm
>>> We started looking at jQuery this week. Here are the lecture materials:
>>> http://jeffreyatw.com/static/frontend/series3/class9/lecture.zip
>>>
>>> This assignment takes an existing HTML/CSS structure and adds jQuery
>>> magic to it:
>>> http://jeffreyatw.com/static/frontend/series3/class9/assignment.html
>>>
>>> The lab is a great opportunity to work on the assignment, any other
>>> personal project, or ask questions about any aspect of web
>>> development. You don't need to attend the lecture series to stop by.
>>>
>>> It's in Turing on Thursday at 8pm. Hope to see you there!
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Frontend_Web_Development#Lab
>>>
>>> Jeffrey
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: "Danny O'Brien" <danny at spesh.com>
>>> To: Noisebridge Discuss <noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>> Cc:
>>> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:07:32 -0800
>>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] It's a Newtonmas Five Minutes of Fame,
>>> Charlie Brown -- 5MOF returns on December 20th, send me your submissions
>>> now, this subject line is too long for most clients.
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> Last month's 5 minutes of fame (Noisebridge's regular opportunity to
>>> show, tell, and/or rant) was fantastically awesome, and involved bad
>>> singing, hard crypto, good music, piezo-electric reenactment
>>> societies, small children channelling Egyptian godheads, and WinAmp.
>>>
>>> The next one will be on December 20th, and will be defiantly
>>> unseasonal. Proposed ideas so far include a war between mushroom, wool
>>> and hemp enthusiasts, live hangliding, quantum ouija, nude haskell,
>>> functional language cage fight, and so on. Clearly we need your input.
>>>
>>> Everyone has five minutes of practical weirdosity in them, and if
>>> you'd like to show off your current project, speculate wildly, or ask
>>> big time rhetorical questions,  tell me now, so I can put you on the
>>> rosta for the next 5mof.
>>>
>>> You can do so by mailing me, or if you like HTML forms, go here:
>>> http://5mof.net/signup/
>>>
>>> For those who missed last months', look, here it is, I found it on an
>>> Internet: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/27058148
>>>
>>> d.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>
>>
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