[Noisebridge-discuss] Turing: Equipment Removed

girlgeek girlgeek at wt.net
Tue Feb 28 07:43:41 UTC 2012

On 2/27/2012 9:48 PM, Gian Pablo Villamil wrote:
> I stand with Jim on this.
> His use of the space is, I think, one of the emblematic activities at 
> Noisebridge, and one of the few that has taken place so consistently 
> and effectively. Whatever he thinks he needs to do to make it happen, 
> I support.
> There are other far more important things to deal with at Noisebridge 
> than the Turing classroom. I really don't understand the belligerent 
> tone from Tom on this. What does he plan to do with the space once it 
> is "cleaned up"? I know what Jim plans, and I heartily support it.
> Give Jim the benefit of the doubt on this. Don't piss him off. We've 
> already lost too many good people.
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com 
> <mailto:jim at systemateka.com>> wrote:
>        Please read this. I do not believe this email is drama.
>     I've tried to articulate a problem and am asking for direct
>     responses at the least from Ben and Tom.
>        Not only do I ask that you read, I ask that you read
>     thoughtfully.
>        How did the drill press and saws get into the dirty
>     workshop? For that matter, how is it that the dirty workshop
>     is there? Likewise for the darkroom and the electronics area
>     with its 'scopes and soldering irons and lots and lots of
>     wires, semiconductors, passives.... Likewise for the sewing
>     area with the machines and the bins of material and drawers
>     of tools and supplies.
>        How about the Tastebridge territory with its special
>     refrigerator and shelves of jars and so on, not to mention
>     the related kitchen with its shelves and cupboards and so on?
>        Put things in member shelves? There are a couple of issues:
>     * spacebridge stuff occupies a number of shelves. Why?
>     * member shelves are subject to mismanagement, it's now obvious.
>        As to Turing, do you have plans to remove the whiteboard
>     and/or the electrical conduit?
>        Generally, the answers are that people saw opportunity for
>     making use of some area for some particular purpose. The
>     discussions preliminary to setting up various areas were as
>     varied as the areas and people who set them up. None of them
>     were subject to a meeting's discussion or consensus process or
>     anything else. Each was do-ocratically established, in some
>     cases with negotiations with others wrt their interests (e.g.
>     I negotiated the "library" space with those who'd claimed that
>     wall for photo display).
>        The multiple discussions about classrooms in which I've
>     participated have noted the need for a classroom area that has
>     a projector and sound system, similar to the main area, and to
>     provide an alternative area so that smaller groups aren't stuck
>     with using the projector and sound system in the main area
>     (which allows people in the main area freedom from the needs of
>     a group using the main projector, etc.). Turing makes good sense
>     as such an alternate area.
>        From time to time there have been do-ocratic efforts, both
>     in the space and on the mailing list, to clean things up and/or
>     reorganize and/or impress conformance.
>        Those that took a positive tone to make improvements, in my
>     recall, were more successful (especially with respect to
>     emotional storms on the discuss list) than those that included
>     a negative proscriptive component.
>        Questions that arise in my mind include "why are you focusing
>     on the turing classroom?" "why are you not focusing on the little
>     storage and rack closet?" Those are real questions, I'm hoping
>     for answers. (I've noticed Ben's response re "electrical closet".)
>        I've not experienced such negatively oriented interference
>     in any other development of an area in our space. I'd like to
>     know why Turing and why now and why in this obnoxious manner.
>        My intention is to set up the Turing classroom so that it
>     supports classes. I have a lot of experience as a classroom
>     lecturer--something like ten years in accredited schools, with
>     notable success.
>        Note that I intend to continue setting up the Turing
>     classroom to be a good and useful classroom, and I expect, in
>     the spirit of do-ocracy and noisebridge's history, that you
>     will respect my efforts to do so.
>        As far as I know, there has been no time when the Turing
>     classroom didn't work for a meeting or class. Space in that
>     room has not been at a premium so far, even with the stuff
>     that's been squirreled in there under tables against the north
>     wall (much or most of it not related to any building or
>     improvement that i know of).
>        A people reading this may recall my occasional pleas in
>     Tuesday evening meetings for people to step up and take
>     ownership of various spaces. A few of you have done so, and
>     with respect to electricity, when you've asked for electrical
>     devices, I've tried to help out:
>     * outlets on the south wall (now buried by shelves)
>     * large capacity run to the kitchen area
>     * removing and reorganizing the electrical mess that we
>      inherited
>     * totally rebuilt the guts of the primary three-phase sub-panel
>     * installed interior entrance lights
>     * brought three-phase availability in the dirty shop
>     * all darkroom electricity
>     * east end lighting improvement
>     * laser cutter dedicated circuit
>     * main room ceiling lights and switches
>     * infrastructure closet lighting and power
>        I've given up trying to defend order in the infrastructure
>     closet, having built all shelves and storage areas to see them
>     trashed, filled with random stuff, shelving materials removed,
>     and noisebridge electrical supplies removed to piles, wrecking
>     the organization I'd worked hard on.
>        As long as I'm building this list, I'll add: I was one of
>     the few who championed improving the floor before we moved in
>     and I put a lot of hours working on the prep and sanding and
>     filling and finishing.
>        Can you understand that the censorious manner you're taking
>     to my work to improve the Turing classroom is irritating?
>        As I wrote earlier in this email, I have not witnessed such
>     an approach as you have taken with respect to any other area in
>     the time we've been either here, at 2169, or at 83C weisse. I
>     ask again: why are you acting in this way?
>        Note I'm not complaining about trying to improve things; I'm
>     complaining hard about the way you're demanding behavior that
>     has been actually sanctioned for every other improvement in the
>     past. (Note also that the build-out policy is that people can
>     bring and leave their personal tools and supplies needed to do
>     their work as long as they label their tools and supplies.)
>        I expect that you will, at the least, let me continue to
>     try to improve the Turing classroom by curtailing behavior that
>     demands foolish conformity and is contradictory to established
>     Noisebridge norms for improving the space.
>        I welcome cleaning and organizing efforts. I have pretty
>     much given up on trying to rescue or reorganize Noisebridge
>     supplies such as (expensive) copper wire. When we run out of
>     wire, I'll not resupply--I've spent enough already. If you've
>     thrown out the wire that Noisebridge has paid for, please go
>     to an electrical supply store and replace it.
>        I'd like positive support, but i'll gladly take silence.
>     On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 22:19 -0800, Ben Kochie wrote:
>     > Jim, storing things in the classroom, while traditional, is
>     still not
>     > the intended use for that space.  We have been trying to clean
>     up the
>     > room and make it more habitable and inviting for classes of all
>     kinds.
>     >  The things you talk about are in their appropriate locations.
>     >
>     > Yes, I know you teach classes in there, but that's only a day or
>     two a
>     > week.  If you want to setup a permanent location for teaching Linux
>     > serving, please talk to me on Tuesday night.  I'd love to help.
>     >
>     > I cleaned out the ewaste and some other garbage from the electrical
>     > closet.  I have a bit more organizing to do, but there should be
>     more
>     > than enough room to hold all the electrical spare parts in there.
>     >
>     > On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 19:02, jim <jim at well.com
>     <mailto:jim at well.com>> wrote:
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >    Do you plan to take the saws and drills out of
>     > > the dirty workshop? remove the refrigerator from
>     > > the kitchen area? How about the sewing machines
>     > > and oscilloscopes?
>     > >    I'd like to meet you and talk.
>     > > jim
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 17:41 -0800, Tom wrote:
>     > >> As I said on the list almost two weeks ago, then announced at
>     last
>     > >> week's meeting, I have removed the computer/audio equipment and
>     > >> speakers from Turing, and placed them in the e-waste pile.
>     Please find
>     > >> them a better home on your hacker shelf, or somewhere else
>     where space
>     > >> is not a premium! If you do so, go ahead and use them for
>     classes in
>     > >> Turing, but remove them afterwards. If these items end up
>     stored in
>     > >> Turing again, I intend to remove them permanently.
>     > >
>     > >
>     > > _______________________________________________
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