[Noisebridge-discuss] Turing: Equipment Removed

Ronald Cotoni setient at gmail.com
Tue Feb 28 10:22:10 UTC 2012

I mostly agree as well but at the same time, there was apparently massive
notice given. I do notice all of the awesome work that Jim has put into the
placefrom both the classes he teaches as well as the physical work he has
done in the space.  I am sure we can come up with a better solution than
putting this equipment on the floor in Turing.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 11:43 PM, girlgeek <girlgeek at wt.net> wrote:

>  +1
> -Claudia
> On 2/27/2012 9:48 PM, Gian Pablo Villamil wrote:
> I stand with Jim on this.
>  His use of the space is, I think, one of the emblematic activities at
> Noisebridge, and one of the few that has taken place so consistently and
> effectively. Whatever he thinks he needs to do to make it happen, I support.
>  There are other far more important things to deal with at Noisebridge
> than the Turing classroom. I really don't understand the belligerent tone
> from Tom on this. What does he plan to do with the space once it is
> "cleaned up"? I know what Jim plans, and I heartily support it.
>  Give Jim the benefit of the doubt on this. Don't piss him off. We've
> already lost too many good people.
>  On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 3:36 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>>    Please read this. I do not believe this email is drama.
>> I've tried to articulate a problem and am asking for direct
>> responses at the least from Ben and Tom.
>>    Not only do I ask that you read, I ask that you read
>> thoughtfully.
>>    How did the drill press and saws get into the dirty
>> workshop? For that matter, how is it that the dirty workshop
>> is there? Likewise for the darkroom and the electronics area
>> with its 'scopes and soldering irons and lots and lots of
>> wires, semiconductors, passives.... Likewise for the sewing
>> area with the machines and the bins of material and drawers
>> of tools and supplies.
>>    How about the Tastebridge territory with its special
>> refrigerator and shelves of jars and so on, not to mention
>> the related kitchen with its shelves and cupboards and so on?
>>    Put things in member shelves? There are a couple of issues:
>> * spacebridge stuff occupies a number of shelves. Why?
>> * member shelves are subject to mismanagement, it's now obvious.
>>    As to Turing, do you have plans to remove the whiteboard
>> and/or the electrical conduit?
>>    Generally, the answers are that people saw opportunity for
>> making use of some area for some particular purpose. The
>> discussions preliminary to setting up various areas were as
>> varied as the areas and people who set them up. None of them
>> were subject to a meeting's discussion or consensus process or
>> anything else. Each was do-ocratically established, in some
>> cases with negotiations with others wrt their interests (e.g.
>> I negotiated the "library" space with those who'd claimed that
>> wall for photo display).
>>    The multiple discussions about classrooms in which I've
>> participated have noted the need for a classroom area that has
>> a projector and sound system, similar to the main area, and to
>> provide an alternative area so that smaller groups aren't stuck
>> with using the projector and sound system in the main area
>> (which allows people in the main area freedom from the needs of
>> a group using the main projector, etc.). Turing makes good sense
>> as such an alternate area.
>>    From time to time there have been do-ocratic efforts, both
>> in the space and on the mailing list, to clean things up and/or
>> reorganize and/or impress conformance.
>>    Those that took a positive tone to make improvements, in my
>> recall, were more successful (especially with respect to
>> emotional storms on the discuss list) than those that included
>> a negative proscriptive component.
>>    Questions that arise in my mind include "why are you focusing
>> on the turing classroom?" "why are you not focusing on the little
>> storage and rack closet?" Those are real questions, I'm hoping
>> for answers. (I've noticed Ben's response re "electrical closet".)
>>    I've not experienced such negatively oriented interference
>> in any other development of an area in our space. I'd like to
>> know why Turing and why now and why in this obnoxious manner.
>>    My intention is to set up the Turing classroom so that it
>> supports classes. I have a lot of experience as a classroom
>> lecturer--something like ten years in accredited schools, with
>> notable success.
>>    Note that I intend to continue setting up the Turing
>> classroom to be a good and useful classroom, and I expect, in
>> the spirit of do-ocracy and noisebridge's history, that you
>> will respect my efforts to do so.
>>    As far as I know, there has been no time when the Turing
>> classroom didn't work for a meeting or class. Space in that
>> room has not been at a premium so far, even with the stuff
>> that's been squirreled in there under tables against the north
>> wall (much or most of it not related to any building or
>> improvement that i know of).
>>    A people reading this may recall my occasional pleas in
>> Tuesday evening meetings for people to step up and take
>> ownership of various spaces. A few of you have done so, and
>> with respect to electricity, when you've asked for electrical
>> devices, I've tried to help out:
>> * outlets on the south wall (now buried by shelves)
>> * large capacity run to the kitchen area
>> * removing and reorganizing the electrical mess that we
>>  inherited
>> * totally rebuilt the guts of the primary three-phase sub-panel
>> * installed interior entrance lights
>> * brought three-phase availability in the dirty shop
>> * all darkroom electricity
>> * east end lighting improvement
>> * laser cutter dedicated circuit
>> * main room ceiling lights and switches
>> * infrastructure closet lighting and power
>>    I've given up trying to defend order in the infrastructure
>> closet, having built all shelves and storage areas to see them
>> trashed, filled with random stuff, shelving materials removed,
>> and noisebridge electrical supplies removed to piles, wrecking
>> the organization I'd worked hard on.
>>    As long as I'm building this list, I'll add: I was one of
>> the few who championed improving the floor before we moved in
>> and I put a lot of hours working on the prep and sanding and
>> filling and finishing.
>>    Can you understand that the censorious manner you're taking
>> to my work to improve the Turing classroom is irritating?
>>    As I wrote earlier in this email, I have not witnessed such
>> an approach as you have taken with respect to any other area in
>> the time we've been either here, at 2169, or at 83C weisse. I
>> ask again: why are you acting in this way?
>>    Note I'm not complaining about trying to improve things; I'm
>> complaining hard about the way you're demanding behavior that
>> has been actually sanctioned for every other improvement in the
>> past. (Note also that the build-out policy is that people can
>> bring and leave their personal tools and supplies needed to do
>> their work as long as they label their tools and supplies.)
>>    I expect that you will, at the least, let me continue to
>> try to improve the Turing classroom by curtailing behavior that
>> demands foolish conformity and is contradictory to established
>> Noisebridge norms for improving the space.
>>    I welcome cleaning and organizing efforts. I have pretty
>> much given up on trying to rescue or reorganize Noisebridge
>> supplies such as (expensive) copper wire. When we run out of
>> wire, I'll not resupply--I've spent enough already. If you've
>> thrown out the wire that Noisebridge has paid for, please go
>> to an electrical supply store and replace it.
>>    I'd like positive support, but i'll gladly take silence.
>> On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 22:19 -0800, Ben Kochie wrote:
>> > Jim, storing things in the classroom, while traditional, is still not
>> > the intended use for that space.  We have been trying to clean up the
>> > room and make it more habitable and inviting for classes of all kinds.
>> >  The things you talk about are in their appropriate locations.
>> >
>> > Yes, I know you teach classes in there, but that's only a day or two a
>> > week.  If you want to setup a permanent location for teaching Linux
>> > serving, please talk to me on Tuesday night.  I'd love to help.
>> >
>> > I cleaned out the ewaste and some other garbage from the electrical
>> > closet.  I have a bit more organizing to do, but there should be more
>> > than enough room to hold all the electrical spare parts in there.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 19:02, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >    Do you plan to take the saws and drills out of
>> > > the dirty workshop? remove the refrigerator from
>> > > the kitchen area? How about the sewing machines
>> > > and oscilloscopes?
>> > >    I'd like to meet you and talk.
>> > > jim
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, 2012-02-26 at 17:41 -0800, Tom wrote:
>> > >> As I said on the list almost two weeks ago, then announced at last
>> > >> week's meeting, I have removed the computer/audio equipment and
>> > >> speakers from Turing, and placed them in the e-waste pile. Please
>> find
>> > >> them a better home on your hacker shelf, or somewhere else where
>> space
>> > >> is not a premium! If you do so, go ahead and use them for classes in
>> > >> Turing, but remove them afterwards. If these items end up stored in
>> > >> Turing again, I intend to remove them permanently.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing listNoisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.nethttps://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4836 - Release Date: 02/27/12
> _______________________________________________
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss

Ronald Cotoni
Systems Engineer
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20120228/a1ba9ae5/attachment.html>

More information about the Noisebridge-discuss mailing list