[Noisebridge-discuss] Freedom isn't Free

bandit bandit at cruzio.com
Tue May 29 07:05:54 UTC 2012

Corey, you might be surprised that I actually agree with you for the most
However, there are counter-examples.
And do I think we should only spend one day a year
considering the sacrifice of Americans to secure our freedom?
No - we should be aware on a daily basis.
And there are ways to do so that are non-violent - the Occupy movement is
a good example.

Even non-violent methods for freedom are not free.
There are beatings, hosing with fire hoses, jail, loss of jobs, sacrifice.

For the record (full disclosure):

1. I have a boy - he is now 20. No, I don't really want his life wasted in
a useless war.
2. This country has not fought in a "good" war since Korea.
3. Many in my family are former military.
4. I have worked on weapon systems.
5. I am working in the Bay Area because there is no military work in
    whose economy is built on federal money.

I am quite aware of the history of the wars America has fought in since
1900 (really 1776),
including the "banana wars" for Dole and Chiquita.

WW2 was clearly a "good" war.
Japan showed what it was capable of in Nanking, then in how it treated
Allied prisoners.
Bataan is a good "zen-like" example.
Germany was determined to kill off all "undesirables", which included groups
that most of us belong to (all full hetero Aryans please hold your hands
up. Not many.)
Germany did a "reasonable" job, best count is about 6 Million Jews,
6 Million "undesirables", and 6 Million Russians - just as a warmup.

Total deaths are between 62 MILLION and 78 MILLION.

Quote: Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the
world population. The tables below give a detailed country-by-country
count of human losses.

Yep - Germany and Japan needed to be defeated.
Got no problem with Fat Man and Little Boy.
Saved at least 500K Americans, maybe 1 Million.
Saved a lot of Japanese, too.
If Germany had developed the bomb first, our eastern cities would have

I struggled with Korea as a "good" war, but look at what North Korea does.
They have concentration camps Hitler would be jealous of.
North Korea and China would not have stopped except we made them.

Everything after that - we, the citizens, need to hold our "leaders"
for the decision to goto war.

To simplify, there seems to be three basic attitudes:
1. gung-ho military, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
2. we need a kick-ass military that is carefully and wisely used.
3. we should get rid of the military, everything is evil.

I fall in the (2) category.
The war avoided is the best war.

If you think that we should just scrap the military,
do you think the rest of the world would just leave us alone?
(Leaving aside the fact the last 10 years has done a bang-up job of creating
more enemies than we had before.)

But - do not denigrate the sacrifice of those who died for Americans to be
We would still be part of England without the Revolutionary War.
We would still have formal slavery without the Civil War
(and yes, we should fight the Drug war because things just shifted to the
prison system).
We would be dead or in slavery without WW2.

There are plenty of good counter-examples of despotic countries.

The Occupy movement is a good example of our freedom.
While the cops have committed illegal acts in breaking up protests,
they are (albeit slowly) being held accountable,
and with (relatively) light casualties in the protestors.
Been following the news in Syria lately?
Makes the NB drama pretty quaint.
Get back to me when the cops start using live ammo.

... bandit

> Yesterday, completely unrelated to memorial day, I held an MP-40 (breech
> welded) in my hands. It's an elegant, simple, and effective fully
> automatic
> submachine gun of Nazi German design.  I explored it's workings, noted is
> markings, contemplated it's construction and design.  As a machine, it is
> beautiful.
> For a moment, I forgot what it was.  I forgot it was a weapon for killing
> as many God damned people in a room as it was fucking possible., Not only
> that, it probably fucking had.  Young people...American people, by people,
> German people.  All of them, probably boys.
> This might mean a little more when you have a little boy of your own.
> What is astounding to me is the pride people have in sending their
> children
> to die in front of these things.  Even the inventor of the machine gun
> created it thinking that none one would be stupid enough to send children
> to bleed in front of it.
> So, am I to feel pride for people who died in war on a single day? Or do I
> feel sorry for them because people are stupid enough to have bloody,
> greedy, rage filled thoughts, all the fucking time?
> I choose to peacefully protest, and I choose to vote for peaceful
> progress,
> where I might find it. And, more importantly, I choose to quietly consider
> the validity if bumpersticker slogans as to understand their motivation
> and
> correct them where I feel it is necessary.
> Freedom is free, taking it away costs money, and it's the rich fucks who
> want you to think it other wise.  They want you to think their money gives
> them privileges you can't have...unless you earn it...through risking life
> and limb...for them.

bandit at cruzio.com

I am a systems engineer, specializing in:
- Mission-Critical embedded systems
- device drivers
- control and data acquisition systems
My stuff *works* - *all the time*.

Member: INCOSE.org, PACA.org, IEEE.org, CaliforniaConsultants.org, quelab.net

And to support my son: Proud members of the New Mexico .NET User Group.
Please go to the community website at www.nmug.net.

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