[Noisebridge-discuss] Lack of due process when Cynthia forced to leave
Corey McGuire
coreyfro at coreyfro.com
Fri May 4 01:01:46 UTC 2012
Read it. It sounds like bullying. I didn't see that Cynthia did anything
wrong. She just showed up, and people took offense to that. That is
bullshit.
Look, there is a very good chance that I am going to bring non-hackers in
to noisebridge. I may even hang out with them, there. If I am supposed to
worry about the qualifications of every single person I invite in to
noisebridge, noisebridge is going to suffer from the lack of diversity.
People. This is a lonely person picked on by people who judge her. Tell
me she's the only person that has ever happened to.
Guess what? Noisebridge is a play ground, and now we have our own bullies.
Fuck...that...noise.
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:52 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>
> Why?
>
>
> On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 17:42 -0700, Corey McGuire wrote:
> > OK, I read the meeting notes. This...is...in fact...bullshit.
> >
> > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Corey McGuire <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> > wrote:
> > Joe, I have no idea who you are. As far as I know, I've never
> > seen you there. Who's the troll?
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Joseph Brenner
> > <doomvox at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Uh huh. And when people aren't actually willing to
> > show their face to
> > talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet
> > troll that
> > doesn't need to be taken seriously.
> >
> > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org>
> > wrote:
> > > yes because whenever people say something is too
> > horrible to possibly
> > > discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about
> > everything else, it just
> > > sounds like there's really nothing to say and
> > they're trying to cover the
> > > lack of justification for what they did with
> > secrecy.
> > >
> > > let's hear it.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:
> > >
> > >> The people who were actually there and made the
> > call, did not want to
> > >> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the
> > meeting.
> > >>
> > >> Would hashing things out a second time here, for
> > the people who don't
> > >> go to meetings, actually help in any way?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire
> > <coreyfro at coreyfro.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Irony is lost on this one.
> > >>>
> > >>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of
> > FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or
> > >>> SATAN
> > >>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"
> > >>>
> > >>> Feynman, help us.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake
> > <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions
> > are making noisebridge
> > >>>> look bad. and getting the police to come over.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> You know...it's funny. I still have no idea
> > what she did wrong.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra
> > hospodar
> > >>>>> <rachelyra at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The last time I talked to her about it,
> > Erica was no longer
> > >>>>> feeling
> > >>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her
> > she wasn't
> > >>>>> enough of a hacker and she should leave.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This after she had to ask him to stop
> > calling her at 3am.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> R.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake"
> > <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
> > >>>>> I couldn't have said it better
> > myself.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Why is Erica no longer feeling
> > welcome?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have to say, I have noticed that
> > some people (including
> > >>>>> Jesse for sure)
> > >>>>> seem to be fulfilling my prediction
> > that we could swing
> > >>>>> around
> > >>>>> into the
> > >>>>> reactionary zone after we started
> > dealing with the
> > >>>>> occupiers.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Please re-read the below and let's
> > not make the same
> > >>>>> mistakes
> > >>>>> again.
> > >>>>> Calling the police is a LAST RESORT
> > and shows bad judgement
> > >>>>> on
> > >>>>> the part of
> > >>>>> the people who did it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What would Jesse or Will have done if
> > a couple of female
> > >>>>> members told them
> > >>>>> to leave?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Carl said:
> > >>>>> You know I don't post here all that
> > much, but I really felt
> > >>>>> that I had
> > >>>>> to respond to this...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I've read through all of the comments
> > about what transpired
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>> Cynthia, on the discuss list and the
> > meeting notes.
> > >>>>> Although
> > >>>>> I haven't
> > >>>>> been present at Noisebridge during
> > the past week, from what
> > >>>>> I've read so
> > >>>>> far, I am really not pleased about
> > how people involved in
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>> situation
> > >>>>> treated her. (This would include
> > Jesse, Will, and
> > >>>>> apparently
> > >>>>> a third
> > >>>>> man.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> First of all, calling the police
> > really should not be done
> > >>>>> unless:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 1. Someone is harming or threatening
> > harm to another person,
> > >>>>> causing
> > >>>>> damage to the space, stealing, or
> > otherwise causing trouble
> > >>>>> or
> > >>>>> performing an illegal activity.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 2. A person who has been officially
> > banned from the space
> > >>>>> refuses to
> > >>>>> leave. And by "official", I mean a
> > due process has been
> > >>>>> followed
> > >>>>> whereas a previous discussion and
> > consensus was taken to ban
> > >>>>> a
> > >>>>> particular person.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge
> > community are unable to
> > >>>>> handle the
> > >>>>> situation on our own should we get
> > the police involved.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I find it troubling when individuals
> > take it upon themselves
> > >>>>> to forcibly
> > >>>>> remove people from the space, who by
> > all accounts of what
> > >>>>> I've
> > >>>>> read, did
> > >>>>> NOT cause any trouble prior to being
> > asked to leave. I
> > >>>>> believe it was
> > >>>>> wrong for Jesse and Will to have done
> > what they did in this
> > >>>>> case, prior
> > >>>>> to taking it up at a meeting where
> > the members could discuss
> > >>>>> and make a
> > >>>>> decision as to whether to ban Cynthia
> > from the space, AND
> > >>>>> ONLY
> > >>>>> AFTER
> > >>>>> this discussion and consensus would
> > it be appropriate to ask
> > >>>>> someone to
> > >>>>> not return. (and as she brought up,
> > informing her of this
> > >>>>> could have
> > >>>>> been done through email prior to her
> > arrival in order to
> > >>>>> avoid
> > >>>>> this
> > >>>>> confrontation.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I am also troubled by the flippant
> > and immature responses on
> > >>>>> this list
> > >>>>> about Cynthia being "crazy". Her
> > past talk of legal actions
> > >>>>> against
> > >>>>> Texas corporations has no bearing on
> > what transpired. As
> > >>>>> far
> > >>>>> as I can
> > >>>>> tell, she hasn't forng more people
> > than prior to when the
> > >>>>> Oogles started
> > >>>>> arriving at the space. The first
> > time Noisebridge ever
> > >>>>> banned
> > >>>>> anyone,
> > >>>>> it took considerable discussion and a
> > consensus process.
> > >>>>> Nowadays it
> > >>>>> seems like any member can just ban
> > anyone they don't like.
> > >>>>> How and why
> > >>>>> did we get to this point? And I'm
> > not just talking about
> > >>>>> Cynthia here,
> > >>>>> but others as well. (take Erica for
> > example, who no longer
> > >>>>> feels
> > >>>>> welcome here.)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> And lastly, I think we need to stop
> > this witch-hunt
> > >>>>> non-hacker
> > >>>>> hate
> > >>>>> mentality that we seem to be
> > developing here, which will
> > >>>>> only
> > >>>>> drive away
> > >>>>> new people who may not be familiar
> > with hacker culture. If
> > >>>>> we
> > >>>>> try to
> > >>>>> make an effort to become friends with
> > them, then we can
> > >>>>> encourage
> > >>>>> newcomers to contribute and learn to
> > become hackers by
> > >>>>> involving them
> > >>>>> with our projects. Instead of
> > rejecting them, we should be
> > >>>>> trying to
> > >>>>> encourage them to become productive
> > participants in our
> > >>>>> community.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -Carl
> > >>>>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>>
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >>>>>
> >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,
> > but no simpler -
> > >>>>> Albert
> > >>>>> Einstein
> > >>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -
> > Leonardo Da Vinci
> > >>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing
> > left to add, but when
> > >>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de
> > Saint Exup?ry
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,
> > but no simpler - Albert
> > >>> Einstein
> > >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -
> > Leonardo Da Vinci
> > >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing
> > left to add, but when
> > >>> there
> > >>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
> > Exup?ry
> > >>>
> > >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > >>>
> >
> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> > >>>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no
> > simpler - Albert Einstein
> > Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> >
> > Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add,
> > but when there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
> > Exupéry
> >
> > Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -
> > Albert Einstein
> > Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci
> > Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when
> > there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry
> > Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson
> > _______________________________________________
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> > Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> > https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>
>
>
--
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert
Einstein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da
Vinci<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there
is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint
Exupéry<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry>
Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly
Johnson<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson>
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