[Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent

Sun Oct 21 06:08:20 UTC 2012

I feel ya man. i remember when i tried contributing to the meetings and was
pretty much told by at least one member that because i wasn't paying dues
my opinions didn't count because i had no financial stake in the space.
that, regardless how much i was trying to help out the space, since i
couldn't pony up the cash for membership i couldn't really be giving
valuable feedback. Good times. Nice to know that shit's still going on.

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com>wrote:

>  Relax. Do good things. Try to do your best. If you have issues take them
> to the weekly meeting.
>
> No one is required to help you because of "membership". NB has no
> leadership or order. <--- get used to it.
>
> Ask a fellow Power User if you need help.  Ask a Noob because they always
> want to cut their teeth. I generally don't have any problems getting
> assistance when I need it.
>
>
>
> On 10/20/2012 10:32 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>
>   The line "Credit is not due to those who do good deeds" is troubling.
> Perhaps this should more properly be addressed on the SocEng list. But if
> credit is not due them, then to whom is it due? Those that do evil, or
> those who do nothing? That's seems counter-intuitive.
>
> One of the power users turned to me a few minutes ago, and said "You know
> it would be nice to be thanked, just once." When I am in the space, and I
> see others doing things like this, I make sure to stop and thank them.
>
> As we were trying to put Noisebridge into some semblance of order just
> now, not one member got off their butts to help. As a matter of fact, one
> member refused to move so that we could move things.
>
> If either of the proposed policies (although I see none of the members
> proposing them have added them to the agenda) comes to pass, when do you
> suppose the space will get cleaned or straightened up?
>
> What I am seeing, frankly, are policies proposed as if they will never
> affect a human being, never have negative consequences, as if the policies
> are so perfect that all outcomes lead to Nirvana. Seriously, none of us are
> that smart.
>
> - Reverend Mik
> ------------------------------
> [censored, spindled and mutilated]
>
> --- On *Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com><ewr at majortek.com>
> * wrote:
>
>
> From: Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com> <ewr at majortek.com>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 9:44 PM
>
>  You've made some excellent points but your last comment was passive
> aggressive.
>
> I am not a member because I can not afford to be one. If I had $80 a
> month, I would gladly give it. However, being a Power User does not exclude
> me from taking on the role of Member.
>
> Noisebridge does not have leadership. This is a Do-ocracy.
>
> If you see a problem, fix it. Use the materials available. Improvise. This
> is the "Maker" mantra. Credit is not due to those that perform good deeds.
> No one is looked upon with a higher gratitude because they help others.
>
> Noisebridge is altruism.
>
> If someone wants to paint and there are haters, fuck them. If someone
> wants to use the kitchen and there are haters, fuck them. If someone is
> giving false information, intervene. Give tours when needed.
>
> You love Noisebridge, right? Take ownership.
>
>
> On 10/20/2012 09:03 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
>
>   I've been sharing what's being discussed by a few regulars in the
> space, or as Danny called us once, "power users".
>
> Understand that these are people who regularly chip in to clean up or get
> things put into a semblence of order (especially after events). We wash
> dishes, we take the trash out, we bring the bins back in, we sweep the
> floors... We try to not make waves, we try to help out when we can. And
> right now, a couple of us have been assisting Cliff in painting the space.
>
> Yet, a few minutes or an hour after we do things like this, someone will
> stomp through the space, talking loudly about how "those people" need to be
> kicked out because "those people" never do a damned thing around the space.
>
> Most of the people jumping in to fix computers or other gadgets brought in
> by visitors in the past two months have been "power users". Throughout the
> day, evening, and night, there are often times where there are no members
> present - no members to welcome newcomers, no members to give visitors
> tours.
>
> Some of the other "power users" feel that they can't come to the meetings
> to discuss things that are going on. They feel that they aren't allowed to
> speak up, because they're not members. They feel they shouldn't "bother"
> members by joining conversations.
>
> And I have heard several people giving out incorrect or misleading
> information on how to become a member. "You have to collaborate on a couple
> projects with real members before you're allowed to put in an application,"
> has been one I've heard several times.
>
> The amount of pure shit that happens when there are no members present, or
> when members are sequestered off by themselves, is alarming. But if members
> don't approach visitors or "power users" and actively solicit feedback, get
> involved in discussions, or at least try to get to know them, it will
> continue, and probably get worse.
>
> Yes, I know, I am considered a troll on the discussion list. And because I
> am a troll, nothing I have said has any relevance or value. After all, it's
> easier to dismiss me as a troll than actually consider any points I may
> have made.
>
> - Reverend Mik
> ------------------------------
> It is impossible to wage war or commit violence, unless you first prove
> the other party is less human than you are. - Shane Vassad
>
>
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