[Noisebridge-discuss] I got groped at noisebridge at hackmeet

Ever Falling everfalling at gmail.com
Sun Oct 21 07:07:37 UTC 2012


"Another thing is that questioning the circumstances tends to have the aim
of minimizing the importance or impact of the assault."

So i'm a douchebag for not immediately throwing all my chips into the "i
trust this persons interpretation of the events 100%" pile? super.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Mitchel McAllister
<xonimmortal at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Liz,
>
> You are correct. One of the things we have discussed in Consent Culture is
> that a person who has been sexually assaulted must be allowed to take
> whatever action he or she feels comfortable with. Another thing is that
> questioning the circumstances tends to have the aim of minimizing the
> importance or impact of the assault.
>
> What happened to Susan was wrong, both the snubbing she got and the
> assault. I really wish that there had been, as Danny mentioned, a clear and
> obvious person, either attached to Noisebridge or Hackmeet, to go to
> immediately. Unfortunately, that did not happen, and will probably not
> happen in the near future.
>
> - Reverend Mik
> ------------------------------
> When you settle for less... that's all you get.
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 10/20/12, Liz Henry <liz at bookmaniac.org>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Liz Henry <liz at bookmaniac.org>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] I got groped at noisebridge at hackmeet
> To: noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 11:17 PM
>
>
> Everfalling:
>
> I don't think this is an appropriate question. If I ever have a similar
> thing happen to me at the space, I would be very uncomfortable being
> cross examined about it and having my own judgment of what happened
> dismissed.   That is what you just did to Susan and it is really wrong,
> and embarrassing.   Yet it is what women inevitably face when they try
> to report sexual harassment and assault.  And then when we don't report
> it and simply go away, everyone wonders why and faults us for that.   A
> situation I certainly HAVE faced many times and probably will again in
> life.
>
> Whoever you are Ever Falling, could you talk to me in person some time?
> I would discuss the issues if you want to have some sort of discussion,
> but would prefer that to happen in person.
>
> Thanks
>
> Liz
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/20/12 10:59 PM, Ever Falling wrote:
> > For the sake of a fuller picture could you be specific about where you
> were
> > when you were touched, what the surroundings were like (crowded? were you
> > alone? sitting? standing?), and how much you feel like it was
> unmistakably
> > intentional and not accidental? Also could you be more specific about the
> > reactions of others around you afterward? Had they seen it happen and
> chose
> > to say nothing? Did they not see it but you tried bringing it up to them
> > and they ignored you? Do you have any description of the person who
> touched
> > you?
> >
> > Not to at all take away from what might very well be an assault but on
> face
> > value your description of the events could be seen as an accidental
> grazing
> > due to the crowd and then, since it was an accident and no one else saw
> > this, everyone seemed to go about their business like nothing happened
> > because for all they know nothing did.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Eric W. Rasmussen <ewr at majortek.com<http://mc/compose?to=ewr@majortek.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Who was it? Describe them. I will take on this effort. Email me
> personally
> >> if needed.
> >>
> >> You are correct that this has been an issue in the space. I, for one,
> try
> >> to invite more women into the space. Women bring a new prospective. I
> wish
> >> there were more children because they do the same.
> >>
> >> Noisebridge is a learning establishment. It's not fair that you've
> learned
> >> aggression.
> >>
> >> I personally apologize for the actions made against you. You can always
> >> call me to your attention if something disagreeable happens. I regret
> that
> >> I may not have been present.
> >>
> >> Please don't give up on us. If you want to hand your key to me, I will
> >> hand it off to another woman and make sure she is safe. Or, I will hold
> it
> >> for you upon your return.
> >>
> >> Please accept my apology on behalf of the collective.
> >>
> >> ewr
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/20/2012 07:19 PM, Susan Werner wrote:
> >>
> >>> I went to hackmeet today, tried to join in a few conversations, and got
> >>> told
> >>> to fuck off because I don't already know people. As I was crying and
> >>> talking
> >>> to someone on the Internet about how these kinds of events are
> >>> intentionally
> >>> hostile to people who don't already have significant social
> connections,
> >>> some
> >>> guy walks by me, and rubs his hand on my right breast, and calmly walks
> >>> on as
> >>> if nothing happened.
> >>>
> >>> I got groped while I was crying at noisebridge, during an event with
> lots
> >>> of
> >>> people at it, and nobody did anything. Nobody spoke a word to me.
> Nobody
> >>> offered any kind of help whatsoever, and lots of people walked by me,
> as
> >>> I was
> >>> there for about half an hour after that happened.
> >>>
> >>> I'm done with noisebridge, done with its community which enables sexual
> >>> assault, done with events which are intentionally hostile to newcomers,
> >>> done
> >>> with all the bullshit about it being an "anarchist space" where nothing
> >>> can be
> >>> said about entitled jerks who make the space hostile for others.
> >>>
> >>> Until someone works on the whole "hostility to newcomers" bit of hacker
> >>> culture, harassment will be endemic. As long as newcomers are seen as
> >>> people to
> >>> be excluded and hazed, no amount of non-harassment policies or codes of
> >>> conduct
> >>> will do anything substantial.
> >>>
> >>> Kicking out the people who grope isn't enough and won't cause systemic
> >>> change.
> >>> Change the culture which encourages treating newcomers and outsiders
> like
> >>> shit,
> >>> and ignores anything anyone does to newcomers, don't just kick out
> people
> >>> who
> >>> further this sort of culture.
> >>>
> >>> Have fun with your hackerspaces and your shitty-ass subculture based on
> >>> exclusion and abuse. I don't even need to talk to people like y'all and
> >>> I'm not
> >>> going to spend a moment of extra time with a bunch of people who can't
> >>> even
> >>> look at me after I get groped in front of fifteen people.
> >>>
> >>> I have a key to noisebridge. If anyone wants it, let me know.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ______________________________**_________________
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> >
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------
> Liz Henry
> liz at bookmaniac.org <http://mc/compose?to=liz@bookmaniac.org>
> http://bookmaniac.org
>
> "Without models, it's hard to work; without a context, difficult to
> evaluate; without peers, nearly impossible to speak." -- Joanna Russ
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